millershollow - Day 2

Link:162280 Sat Jan 23 00:18:23 2010

The town square's bells rang once again as day came to Millers Hollow. The sun was obscured both by bleak fog and dark belching smog from the Evil Ben Snack Factory. The mayor reclined on a chair on the balcony of his manor as the crowd gathered. He was sipping on some red wine.

As the townsfolk gathered, they shued the

duck away from the body of

gorillashaman. It had apparently been nibbling at the syrup and waffle caked face.

They did a quick count and realized that not one, but two citizens were missing from their ranks. They realized that whereas the Baker had died the night before. Now

cuddlycthulhu was missing as well. They walked slowly up to his cottage and found it destroyed. The door bashed in, carnage was strewn around the inside. The body of

cuddlycthulhu lay mauled in the center of the kitchen, batter and fruit and waffle mix tossed around the room. Written on the wall in blood was "Waffles Kill!"

But there was still one more missing, and the townsfolk solemly walked to the poor missing villager's house. The cottage looked fine and normal on the outside, but the front door was unlocked. Walking in they discovered

myshanter's body completley cut open, eviscerated and laying open for all the town to see, the work of a person who knew how to use a blade. Candy was lying half hazardly around the room.

SUMMARY:

cuddlycthulhu the CUPID is DEAD!

myshanter the VILLAGER is DEAD!

	Time:2009-09-22 19:28:46 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2529256	Parent:(none) Siblings:#4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#2 #3 #13 #16 #30 #105	#1
	... so what exactly was Gorillashaman's big plan, then?

	Time:2009-09-22 19:37:32 GMT Author:cambler Subject:(none) Link:162280#2529512	Parent:#1 Siblings:#3 #13 #16 #30 #105 Children:#28 #73	#2
	Honestly, I suspect he simply chose to not play.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:38:04 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:162280#2529768	Parent:#1 Siblings:#2 #13 #16 #30 #105 Children:(none)	#3
	To get killed.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:41:02 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2530024	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#4
	standing before the body of cuddlycthulu, staring at the words on the wall, eyes wide and mouth dropped open ...Well, waffles DO kill, but this was not the way to agree with me. o_o Er. So, he wasn't a wolf. Well...um, I will have to go back and refine my wolf finding strategies.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:43:54 GMT Author:evilben Subject:I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2530536	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#7 #11 #17	#5
	...wolves hate people who peddle bread products. Good thing EvilBen Snacks are all "meat." It appears we not only have wolves, but a serial killer on our hands. I move we elect a Sheriff. So, from my recollection, the two most suspicious were slownewsday, who claims to be a wolf, and ophiomancer, who hates Waffles, just like the wolves apperently do. That could, however be a ploy by the wolves to get a villager lynched. I VOTE ABSTAIN untill more discussion happens and more evidence is brought forward.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:44:43 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:162280#2530792	Parent:# Siblings:(none) Children:#9	#6
	Gorillashaman is dead. Killed by a strawberry.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:47:49 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2531048	Parent:#5 Siblings:#11 #17 Children:#8 #75	#7
	ok, we have a nomination for electing a Sheriff. Do we have a second?

	Time:2009-09-22 19:53:10 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2531304	Parent:#7 Siblings:#75 Children:(none)	#8
	Sure I second it. Still trying to figure out gorillashamans tactics though.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:53:46 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2531560	Parent:#6 Siblings:(none) Children:#18	#9
	Yes! Thus proving the dangers of waffles in this perilous times. I won't say I Told You So. I'm a better person than that.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:54:26 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:(none) Link:162280#2531816	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#97	#10
	slownewsday also claims to be a wolf. I don't know what gorillashaman's game was, nor slownewsday's is now. But I don't see how we can do anything but the obvious.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:54:57 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2532072	Parent:#5 Siblings:#7 #17 Children:(none)	#11
	I don't hate waffles. I'm just saying they kill. There is a difference.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:55:54 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2532328	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#15 #19 #35	#12
	moving for a sheriff vote is premature, I think. No way to know who's getting the vote. if we make a wolf the sheriff, we will be in some trouble. Even a villager at this point is still shooting pretty blind. Maybe more of us normal villagers have to sacrifice ourselves, for the greater good? I'm not a wolf, but I'm also not a special, that I know of. Lynch me, I guess.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:56:57 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:162280#2532584	Parent:#1 Siblings:#2 #3 #16 #30 #105 Children:(none)	#13
	He could've been a wolf sympathizer (if i recall, there is one of those in the game) setting up a smoke screen. I just can't believe people went with it. The outcome was very predictable. I am willing to bet the wolves were among those that voted for him as per the "dogpile" scenario.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:57:10 GMT Author:stride Subject:Status Link:162280#2532840	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#27 #39 #44 #49	#14
	LIVING: baronlaw cambler chessiekitty dragonattack evilben faymar flipperchaz flowen giantlaser gnatdbug gwydion82 hungryandhollow logophylia1 lorriet maniakes ophiomancer ragnarok_now rustymaggot snoopyh42 slojae slownewsday smurfetts_lamb sonicbunny starryshadows stride sylvan DEAD: gorillashaman: Villager myshanter: Villager cuddlycthulhu: Cupid Special roles remaining: Wolves (x4) Seer Witch Afflicted Ralph Nader Hunter Bodyguard Martyr Ghost Serial Killer

	Time:2009-09-22 19:59:49 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:(none) Link:162280#2533096	Parent:#12 Siblings:#19 #35 Children:(none)	#15
	That's along the lines of what I was thinking, too. Not sure where to go from here, but there's on one other than myself that I'm sure of, so...yeah.

	Time:2009-09-22 19:59:57 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2533352	Parent:#1 Siblings:#2 #3 #13 #30 #105 Children:#26	#16
	eh, i think he might have been hopinh to be the ghost ... nothing else makes sense asid from backing out ...

	Time:2009-09-22 20:01:50 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2533608	Parent:#5 Siblings:#7 #11 Children:#20	#17
	And quite the contrary, wolves would love the waffles. They're sugary and fattening. If you were going to fatten someone up, wouldn't you want them to eat the waffles? I was telling people to NOT eat them. I'm looking out for this town's best interests! Of course, cuddlycthulu turned out to not be a wolf, so it seems I may have to rework my theory.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:02:37 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:162280#2533864	Parent:#9 Siblings:(none) Children:#22	#18
	Actually it was the strawberry that killed. Thus condiments on waffles kill people, not the waffles themselves.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:05:10 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2534120	Parent:#12 Siblings:#15 #35 Children:(none)	#19
	Agreed. It's only the the second day. I wouldn't feel comfortable voting for a sheriff at this point. The wolves would be all over trying to get that spot and if they get in, they would kill off villagers left and right. I vote to wait.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:06:31 GMT Author:stride Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2534376	Parent:#17 Siblings:(none) Children:#23	#20
	cuddlycthulhu was the cupid; he was trying to spread waffle love. I guess it's less painful than arrows.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:07:06 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Yesterday's business Link:162280#2534888	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#29 #36	#21
	Vote Slownewsday

	Time:2009-09-22 20:09:31 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2535144	Parent:#18 Siblings:(none) Children:#25	#22
	But would there have been strawberries without waffles? No. I rest my case. crosses arms, nose in air haughtily ;)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:11:32 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2535400	Parent:#20 Siblings:(none) Children:#24	#23
	I see your point, but I don't think gorillashaman would agree with you. Choking to death on a waffle strawberry can't be a pleasant way to go.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:13:22 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2535912	Parent:#23 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#24
	hey it's a first for Millers Hollow too! :)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:13:48 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:(none) Link:162280#2536168	Parent:#22 Siblings:(none) Children:#32 #33	#25
	That is like arguing that guns don't kill people bullets fired by people holding guns do... err or something like that!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:15:56 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:(none) Link:162280#2536424	Parent:#16 Siblings:(none) Children:#31	#26
	I still vote for weird social experiment.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:16:40 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2536680	Parent:#14 Siblings:#39 #44 #49 Children:(none)	#27
	Nice summary.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:17:36 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:162280#2536936	Parent:#2 Siblings:#73 Children:(none)	#28
	that was my thought. possibly the visiting dignitary delayed things enough that he no longer had the time to be involved.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:17:44 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2537192	Parent:#21 Siblings:#36 Children:(none)	#29
	Okay sure why not: vote slownewsday But if you are wrong... tomorrow it's Dragon attacking time. ;)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:18:29 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:162280#2537448	Parent:#1 Siblings:#2 #3 #13 #16 #105 Children:#102	#30
	His plan was to die, as a villager, so we didn't out (or kill) a special. It was pretty simple. Also, it helps that there are 3 villager specials we don't know about, and so we're generally limiting the chance for surprises later in the game. I'm going to continue to kill the people who claimed to be werewolves yesterday, simply because it is too dangerous to let them live...

	Time:2009-09-22 20:19:59 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:162280#2537704	Parent:#26 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#31
	But hew already knew the results... as I have done that role in other games... Its fun, you get to type wierd messages, you roll over and the game continues. *shrug Sometimes they let you live a few days when you do it.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:20:18 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:162280#2537960	Parent:#25 Siblings:#33 Children:#37 #45	#32
	guns dont kill people. intentions and determination is what does it. a gun is just a tool. if you try hard enough i bet you could kill someone with a marshmallow.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:21:50 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2538216	Parent:#25 Siblings:#32 Children:#38 #42	#33
	(lol!!) Guns actually sound like a good idea about now. Maybe we should see about getting some silver bullets. According to bad 80s movies werewolves don't like those.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:23:07 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:162280#2538472	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#41	#34
	Since I broke with tradition... It is time to go back to an old stand bye. VOTE STRIDE** She's a wolf. List makers usually are. Make yerself all indispensable... wiggle in as the sadistics holder (statistics) then bam. Eat people. Why the wolves appear to be focused on the use of waffles... I know not.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:23:31 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:162280#2538728	Parent:#12 Siblings:#15 #19 Children:#98	#35
	VOTE GWYDION82 cause that damned frog is creepin me out.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:23:43 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2538984	Parent:#21 Siblings:#29 Children:#40	#36
	Notably, I'm not saying much of anything beyond "this person claimed to be a wolf yesterday." You're welcome to hold me accountable for remembering that, but really, it's not much to go off of.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:25:51 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:162280#2539240	Parent:#32 Siblings:#45 Children:(none)	#37
	It has been done. Do a search on the fluffy bunny deaths... Happened at least once. Or would that be camp-games kill instead?

	Time:2009-09-22 20:26:38 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:162280#2539496	Parent:#33 Siblings:#42 Children:(none)	#38
	Yes...but fireworks also left permanent damage too. So if going to that movie as source... should we de-frock the priest?

	Time:2009-09-22 20:27:13 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2539752	Parent:#14 Siblings:#27 #44 #49 Children:#59	#39
	So ... nearly 1/5 of the remaining inhabitants of the town are knowingly forces of evil ... 1/4 if one counts the afflicted - but that is only activated if the afflicted is killed by a wolf. 5 possible forces of "good" so again, approximately one in 5 ... Without any evidence of evil, we have an 80% chance of killing one innocent person by lynching at this point, and a 4% chance of killing a lover, with an 80% chance of the resulting suicide ALSO being an innocent. There will be a 4% chance that the Bodyguard will choose the individual targeted by the wolves, the same chance for the martyr, BUT the loss of the Martyr would mean the loss of yet ANOTHER innocent. I advise the Martyr NOT to attempt to prevent a death at this point. If we vote a Sherrif at this point, the chances are 15% that we would choose a wolf, thus giving them that much more opportunity to kill us off, as they KNOW who the other wolves are. There is also the 4% chance that we would choose the Serial Killer, but that would not be AS damaging to the townsfolk. All in all, the chances are GOOD that we will repeat our mistakes of yesterday's lynching at LEAST a few more times. :(

	Time:2009-09-22 20:29:09 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2540008	Parent:#36 Siblings:(none) Children:#46 #51	#40
	Well true, I am actually more worried about people who are using logic against voting for a sheriff when the odds are most in our favor of voting a townsfolk into the job.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:29:12 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:162280#2540264	Parent:#34 Siblings:(none) Children:#43	#41
	I'm traditionally the list-maker and traditionally not a wolf. :P Vote abstain since yesterday was weird.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:29:22 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:162280#2540520	Parent:#33 Siblings:#38 Children:#48	#42
	if i was working with a silvered weapon, id want a 2 foot silver dildo. make death awkward for wolfie. and frighten the jeepers out of the rest of them.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:29:30 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:(none) Link:162280#2540776	Parent:#41 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#43
	It was.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:30:49 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2541032	Parent:#14 Siblings:#27 #39 #49 Children:#50 #53	#44
	Actually, it's a bad summary, in a specific way. The math on specials left is faulty. We can be relatively certain (absolutely certain, unless he comes back and chats with us) that Gorilla wasn't the Ghost. However, we've no way of knowing if we've killed the Nader or the Afflicted. Both of those are possibly still live, but also possibly dead. The serial killer also may have killed one of those off, so we could possibly end up with NEITHER of those still live, already. Be careful with the use of those roles when it comes down to math :P

	Time:2009-09-22 20:34:16 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:(none) Link:162280#2541288	Parent:#32 Siblings:#37 Children:(none)	#45
	Death by flaming marshmallow!!!!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:34:45 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2541544	Parent:#40 Siblings:#51 Children:(none)	#46
	Yes, but we would be voting an UNINFORMED townperson into the position unless we happened to hit the seer (4% chance(, and even THEN, the seer at this point has knowledge of AT MOST two person's identities. NOT a good idea yet.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:34:53 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2541800	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#52 #56 #58 #62	#47
	I standby my theory of wolves hating waffles. As such, I cast my vote ophiomancer. Can I offer anyone some tasty scones?

	Time:2009-09-22 20:35:06 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2542056	Parent:#42 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#48
	...you have fun with that, buddy. Just uh, keep it away from the rest of the silver weapons when you use it. We don't want to be...touching that...stuff...er...;)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:35:47 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2542312	Parent:#14 Siblings:#27 #39 #44 Children:(none)	#49
	Thank you for the helpful summarization!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:36:34 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2542568	Parent:#44 Siblings:#53 Children:(none)	#50
	Ralph Nader and Ghost are revealed at the time of death. Afflicted is revealed as either a Villager or a Wolf depending on when he dies. So yes the Afflicted could already be dead.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:37:49 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2543080	Parent:#40 Siblings:#46 Children:#54	#51
	But we don't have enough data to vote a sheriff at this point. We could vote a wolf in and then we'd really be screwed. In a few days, maybe, when we have a better feel for our fellow "villagers".

	Time:2009-09-22 20:38:21 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2543336	Parent:#47 Siblings:#56 #58 #62 Children:#55	#52
	Damnit, if I eat a damn waffle will you stop voting for me? ;)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:38:42 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2543592	Parent:#44 Siblings:#50 Children:(none)	#53
	The ghost doesn't figure into the math at all - its a non-factor. the only specials I was concerned about are the 4 wolves, the serial killer, the seer, the witch, the hunter, the bodyguard, and the martyr. The afflicted is ONLY a factor if killed by wolves, and the Nader is ONLY a factor in how effective the seer is. The math still stands :)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:40:29 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2544104	Parent:#51 Siblings:(none) Children:#60 #61 #64 #77	#54
	In a few days we will be down a few more villagers and it will still be random luck unless the seer speaks up early and then is immediately targeted by all the evil forces. SO all waiting does is increase the odds against selecting a villager. Obviously at this point I feel that you are a wolf and probably logophylia1 too. Nothing personal. :)

	Time:2009-09-22 20:40:40 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2544360	Parent:#52 Siblings:(none) Children:#63	#55
	Now you're just offering to eat a waffle to defray suspicions. Not gonna work, Miss Wolfie...

	Time:2009-09-22 20:41:49 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:162280#2544616	Parent:#47 Siblings:#52 #58 #62 Children:#57 #66	#56
	Scones? SCONES? Do you not see the pattern? First the Baker (Joelzero). Then waffles!!!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:43:15 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2544872	Parent:#56 Siblings:#66 Children:(none)	#57
	It'll be fine! I've got blueberry!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:45:29 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:162280#2545384	Parent:#47 Siblings:#52 #56 #62 Children:#70	#58
	Sylvan walked sadly back from the houses. "Things have gone from bad to worse. I do think we should elect a sheriff. I also vote for ophiomancer. Either he has behind CuddlyCthulhu's death or his evil waffle propaganda was."

	Time:2009-09-22 20:45:37 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Status Link:162280#2545640	Parent:#39 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#59
	Let me be clearer - Forces of "Evil" = the Wolves and the Serial Killer. (the afflicted is not yet evil, and has a LOWER chance at this point to be the wolves chosen victim than one of the forces of good ....) Possible forces of "Good" = the seer, the witch, the hunter, the bodyguard, and the martyr because they ALL have the ability to effect the chances of the game ending favorably for the "non-evil" townsfolk. (The martyr and the hunter have little chance of being effective in upping the chances of good's survival at this point though). The other specials did not figure into the math presented above.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:47:06 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2546152	Parent:#54 Siblings:#61 #64 #77 Children:(none)	#60
	Back a you -- I find it suspicious that you and evilben are pushing so hard for a sheriff so early. I think you're trying to get one of your own in to the office so you can stack the votes against the villagers. Considering how little we know of each other at this point, it would be smart to push the idea of a sheriff because they'd be voting blind and probably going for whoever is the loudest candidate. We can no more be sure at this point that we're voting for a villager for sheriff than we could be sure that we're not lynching a villager. We need more time.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:50:22 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2546408	Parent:#54 Siblings:#60 #64 #77 Children:(none)	#61
	No offense taken at all, as you support my point rather well. I am not stating that the Sheriff has a greater chance of being a good townperson later, simply that choosing a Sherrif RIGHT NOW gives no increase in the chances of a Wolf or the serial killer being lynched, but it DOES increase the chances of the wolves killing off innocents. If more information becomes available later, increasing our chances of correctly identifying a wolf or the killer, then the increase in townperson's votes compared to wolves DOES benefit the townpeople.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:52:59 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:162280#2546664	Parent:#47 Siblings:#52 #56 #58 Children:#67	#62
	Oh so this is just a scones throw from real justice?

	Time:2009-09-22 20:55:03 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2547176	Parent:#55 Siblings:(none) Children:#84	#63
	No, I'm just a little annoyed that people aren't paying attention. I never said I hate waffles. I said that I was suspicious that cuddlycthulu was passing them out and was warning people against eating them because I thought he was a wolf trying to get people to like him by passing out food goodies, which is always an easy way to get people to like you, and it would begin plumping people up to eat. Obviously, I was wrong, as he turned out to be Cupid, but I maintain that my logic was sound, even though I turned out to be incorrect. I would like to say that the waffle crisis has passed, but the wolves appear to now be using them in their killings! We should remain villigent!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:55:07 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2547432	Parent:#54 Siblings:#60 #61 #77 Children:#68 #93	#64
	Actually, we've got an interesting situation. If the seer gets useful information (read: about 2 wolves) then it'd definitely be worth them speaking up, since we have a Bodyguard, a Witch, AND a Martyr to protect them. So assuming decent play and coordination from the three of them... there is 3 nights of cover left for an "outed" seer. That's really damn powerful.

	Time:2009-09-22 20:55:12 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:162280#2547688	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#65
	Right now it's too early to tell much of anything... it could be that slownewsday was just using gorllashamen's front as a way to defray suspicion... I almost wanna just list names put it on a dartboard (excluding myself of course)and throw... who would be most dangerous as a wold... I'm thinking cambler or giantlaser and the coin toss leads me to.... vote giantlaser

	Time:2009-09-22 20:55:59 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2548200	Parent:#56 Siblings:#57 Children:(none)	#66
	Do you see? I think the wolves are the ones voting against me. I think I am making them nervous. They're still trying to fatten people up. Don't Eat The Scones!

	Time:2009-09-22 20:56:41 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:(none) Link:162280#2548456	Parent:#62 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#67
	Arggg! Bad Pun attack, kill heeeemmmm!

	Time:2009-09-22 21:02:13 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2549224	Parent:#64 Siblings:#93 Children:(none)	#68
	I have been thinking about that as well, and was crunching a few numbers to see if it's better for the seer to out him/herself now or later. IF the seer DOES know the identity aof a wolf right now, then there might be some vavlue ... otherwise there is no sure way to establish the claim. STRANGELY, if a wolf is willing to commit suicide for the good of the pack, then another wolf could claim to be the seer and thus "prove" it ... might help them gain a couple days worth of intense havok at the possible cost of one wolf now, one later when the bluff is turned.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:02:17 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:My two cents worth Link:162280#2549480	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#71 #72 #79 #80 #86 #87	#69
	Everyone voting against a sheriff in the game is a "special" with something to lose by having a sheriff in the game early. Everyday we let the serial killer and the wolves run roughshod over the town, is a day the odds increase in their favor. unvote slownewsday vote slojae I expect to be killed by the wolves by tonight, so heed my words.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:04:28 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:162280#2549736	Parent:#58 Siblings:(none) Children:#83	#70
	i think you have to put your vote in conjugation with the name of the votee... it doesn't look like the (other) website registered it.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:05:36 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2549992	Parent:#69 Siblings:#72 #79 #80 #86 #87 Children:#74	#71
	I'm ... realy not sure where that is coming from ? How would a "good" special have something to loose by electing a Sheriff ?

	Time:2009-09-22 21:06:34 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2550248	Parent:#69 Siblings:#71 #79 #80 #86 #87 Children:#76	#72
	great, vote for me and predict your own death, now they will kill you to make everyone think I'm one...

	Time:2009-09-22 21:07:06 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2550504	Parent:#2 Siblings:#28 Children:(none)	#73
	That makes more sense than anything else, I guess.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:07:09 GMT Author:baronlaw Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2550760	Parent:#71 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#74
	I'll edit it to say "bad special" but the point remains.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:08:53 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: I guess the lesson here is... Link:162280#2551016	Parent:#7 Siblings:#8 Children:(none)	#75
	No, no, no. At this point the odds of electing a baddie as Sheriff are far too high, then we give a baddie a double-vote.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:11:22 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2551272	Parent:#72 Siblings:(none) Children:#78	#76
	It makes sense, if he's a wolf willing to suicide. The wolves kill one of their own, throws suspicion on you, and off of them. I'm getting a strong feeling that baronlaw is one of them wolves.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:15:54 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2551528	Parent:#54 Siblings:#60 #61 #64 Children:(none)	#77
	I disagree, and think your defense of this is a bit suspicious in and of itself. The only reason you need a sheriff is to add an extra vote to the villagers when things are getting down to the wire - a villager sheriff turns a 3-on-3 situation into something that's winnable instead of an automatic loss. There is no need for a sheriff at this point, as we're all shooting relatively blind.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:18:54 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2551784	Parent:#76 Siblings:(none) Children:#81	#78
	Yes, and while i think giantlaser would be a dangerous wolf... I'm starting to get suspicious at baronlaw's casting so much suspicion at others... and if for no other reason than he's voting for me... unvote giantlaser vote baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-22 21:19:59 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2552296	Parent:#69 Siblings:#71 #72 #80 #86 #87 Children:#92	#79
	Everyone voting against a sheriff in the game is a "special" with something to lose by having a sheriff in the game early. This argument is so clearly flawed that I have trouble believing you don't have ulterior motives. Besides, even if you were correct, all the wolves have to do is keep killing the sheriff in the hope that the badge gets passed to one of them. A player like you should be well aware of the dangers of this. vote baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-22 21:21:19 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2552552	Parent:#69 Siblings:#71 #72 #79 #86 #87 Children:(none)	#80
	also, why would you be killed by the wolves tonight? you're practically doing them a favor by setting up a situation where they could get the sheriff badge in their court almost immediately. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this prediction of doom.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:23:01 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2552808	Parent:#78 Siblings:(none) Children:#82	#81
	Now you see the violence inherent in the system. Early days is tough to tell... and random deaths (from the voting anyway) are all thats possible. As the days roll on, we can pick apart all the wierdness and collect 'evidence' Just wait till the analysis of the voting patterns show up.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:27:13 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2553320	Parent:#81 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#82
	the violence inherent in the system... "help help, I'm being repressed"

	Time:2009-09-22 21:28:27 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:162280#2553576	Parent:#70 Siblings:(none) Children:#114	#83
	I didn't help I mucked up the markup. "To clarify, I vote ophiomancer."

	Time:2009-09-22 21:33:04 GMT Author:creepyduck Subject:(none) Link:162280#2553832	Parent:#63 Siblings:(none) Children:#85	#84
	quack Waffle hater! quack

	Time:2009-09-22 21:34:35 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2554088	Parent:#84 Siblings:(none) Children:#89	#85
	I however LOVE duck. gives it the eeeevil eye ;)

	Time:2009-09-22 21:43:21 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2554344	Parent:#69 Siblings:#71 #72 #79 #80 #87 Children:(none)	#86
	I don't think a sheriff this early in the game is a good idea, with no "known" villagers to trust. I am not a wolf. Therefore, your argument doesn't hold up. So, I don't think I'll change my mind about the sheriff.

	Time:2009-09-22 21:44:51 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2554600	Parent:#69 Siblings:#71 #72 #79 #80 #86 Children:#88 #90	#87
	I'm inclined to agree with hungryandhollow here. The EVIL specials have EVERYTHING to gain from a sheriff being elected at this point. A sheriff gets 2 lynching votes. A sheriff CANNOT save any wolf victims by any special powers. The WOLVES know who the WOLVES are, and if one of them becomes the Sheriff, they can use the extra vote to make sure a wolf does NOT get lynched. The townspeople, with the possible exception of the seer, and the possible exception of the lovers (do they know if thier lover is a special?) have no better idea than any of the rest of the townpeople who the wolves are. As the sherrif CANNOT split his/her vote, it simply means the sheriff would be increasing the 80% chance that he/she is voting an INNOCENT to death. We have only a 4% chance of voting the seer into the sheriffs office and a 15% chance of voting a WOLF into office ! SO - once again - the only people who BENEFIT from a sheriff in office at this time are the WOLVES. Unless you can refute this somehow (and I'm not saying you CAN'T, just not sure how), please drop your support of the immediate election of a sheriff.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:07:50 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2555368	Parent:#87 Siblings:#90 Children:#94 #138	#88
	My main thinking, and the only reason I voted yes, just off gut feeling, was two-fold. First, we have an overwhelming chance of actually getting a "good" (by good, I mean "wants the village to win") person with a second vote. Even if they have no further information, just their intent makes them all the more powerful for the village. Secondly, Sheriff tends to be a position that forces people to explain their play a little more. Sometimes it's nice to be able to interpret someone's play, based on a visible result, instead of gut-feelings, and intuition. We can try and get some sense of things from posts, true, but the sheriff ends up leading the village, nd it becomes easier to tell which side they re on. the second isn't a particularly good reason, but I'll stick with the first for now. I will disagree that only the wolves benefit. However, I will agree that an uninformed villager is still a dangerous thing, but at the moment one risk I wouldn't mind taking.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:12:30 GMT Author:creepyduck Subject:(none) Link:162280#2555880	Parent:#85 Siblings:(none) Children:#91	#89
	quack And what else loves duck? :) quack

	Time:2009-09-22 22:13:54 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2556392	Parent:#87 Siblings:#88 Children:#96	#90
	Lovers do not know what their lover is just who their lover is. Their lover can be a simple villager or any other role in the game.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:17:25 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2557160	Parent:#89 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#91
	People at chinese restaurants. I think I saw your cousin hanging up in the window the other day. ;)

	Time:2009-09-22 22:19:55 GMT Author:cambler Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2557416	Parent:#79 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#92
	vote baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-22 22:20:22 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: Yesterday's business Link:162280#2557672	Parent:#64 Siblings:#68 Children:(none)	#93
	Oh crap, I lied. In rethinking, we've got an immensely powerful set up of specials, here. The seer doesn't get just 3 days of cover, assuming all the specials are still alive. They get an amazing 5 days of cover. Observe: Night 1: Bodyguard saves, Martyr is there for backup in case bodyguard can't re-protect. Night 2: Martyr eats it. Night 3: Bodyguard again. Night 4: Witch saves Seer. Night 5: Bodyguard again. Night 6: Seer finally goes down. That's a TON of useful information. Only downside to that scenario is the serial killer, a little. He can knife through some of those defenses, or remove them while we're counting on them. Definitely not saying for the seer to come out. But saying that the Seer should definitely watch for the possibility of this type of situation being possible.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:20:44 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2557928	Parent:#88 Siblings:#138 Children:#95	#94
	Re: your first "fold"... Who would be motivated to take the post of sheriff right now? In my opinion, it's not the good guys. Anyone else is shooting blind, like the rest of us--except the seer, who's only had one peek at this point.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:23:57 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2558184	Parent:#94 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#95
	Hell, any villager should want to take it, or the Hunter. Yes, it's a bit of a deathwish, but for the brief time you have the power, you can try and do some good with it. We're pretty clearly not having a sheriff, however, so the whole thing becomes moot.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:24:33 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2558440	Parent:#90 Siblings:(none) Children:#99 #117 #137	#96
	How do you know. You can't know for sure whether the lovers tell each other. They could have forwarded a screen capture saying what they are.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:25:45 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:162280#2558696	Parent:#10 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#97
	slownewsday looked like a wolf too, up to and including ripped trousers. I vote slownewsday, sometimes a cigar is simply a cigar. Er, something like that, anyway.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:26:51 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2558952	Parent:#35 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#98
	There, I changed the icon, this better? I don't really have any good icons, I never really use lj.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:27:45 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2559208	Parent:#96 Siblings:#117 #137 Children:#100	#99
	I believe that would be cheating. Joe will correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm pretty sure that we are not supposed to be discussing the game in private e-mails, etc.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:34:31 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2559464	Parent:#99 Siblings:(none) Children:#101	#100
	Yet the game has been mentioned on facebook. Cheating happens, as a current college student I can atest that cheating happens anytime people are given a chance.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:41:45 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2559720	Parent:#100 Siblings:(none) Children:#103	#101
	Mentioned. A single funny quote. By Joe. Not discussed. Cheating will get you kicked out of the game. Please don't encourage it.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:47:00 GMT Author:maniakes Subject:(none) Link:162280#2559976	Parent:#30 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#102
	Exactly -- we've never killed a wolf in the first round (too easy for wolves to steer bandwagons away from their fellow wolves when nobody has information), but we've lynched or outed specials the first round. I've volunteered to be lynched the first round of a lupisintabula game for the same reason.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:48:06 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2560232	Parent:#101 Siblings:(none) Children:#106 #108 #119	#103
	I was not encouraging in any way. I was having a discussion about the game. This topic of what each lovers knows was not brought up by me. Only the flaw in the logic.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:51:33 GMT Author:maniakes Subject:(none) Link:162280#2560488	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#107	#104
	vote baronlaw. It doesn't make sense to elect a sheriff this early in the game because we're too likely to elect a wolf, and baronlaw is a savvy enough player that he ought to know this.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:52:28 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2561000	Parent:#1 Siblings:#2 #3 #13 #16 #30 Children:#109	#105
	Honestly, I'd say he was trying to make sure that it the spirit of first-round randomness, nobody got killed who would have been even worse; a Lover or the Hunter, for instance. He was sacrificing our scant chance of killing a wolf that first time to make sure that nobody died who would have been extremely detrimental. ... of course, now we're down three villagers. Which kinda makes that plan a bad one.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:52:43 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2561256	Parent:#103 Siblings:#108 #119 Children:(none)	#106
	K - but we should be operating under the assumption that there is no cheating, intentional or untintentinoal, or the ONLY logical response is for us to cheat too. Let's not go there :)

	Time:2009-09-22 22:53:51 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2561512	Parent:#104 Siblings:(none) Children:#110	#107
	I'm ... inclined to agree at this point. Still waiting for a little bit longer to give him a chance to reply to may challenge above, but ...

	Time:2009-09-22 22:54:52 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2561768	Parent:#103 Siblings:#106 #119 Children:(none)	#108
	It's only a flaw in logic if someone decides to cheat. It is very clear in the rules that sharing information outside of the game will result in a firm boot in the ass. We're not just here to win, we're here to have fun. Cheating to win in this type of game would be lame. With that said, let's drop this and get back to the game.

	Time:2009-09-22 22:57:31 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2562024	Parent:#105 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#109
	we woiuld have been down by two anyway, and statistically, almost definitely a third as well, so ..

	Time:2009-09-22 23:03:41 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2562280	Parent:#107 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#110
	I'm waiting for his reply too. With so much stacked against him, I'm betting he's on wolfy's side, but I'm interested in hearing what he has to say in his defense.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:12:35 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:162280#2562536	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#111
	Vote baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-22 23:13:55 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2562792	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#118 #140	#112
	Perhaps I'm being a bit naive here, as a new villager and all. But can someone give me an actual, precise breakdown of why it's such a terrible idea to have a sheriff at this stage of the game? It seems to me like the notion of us EVER having a 'known' quantity is rather unlikely. Thus, why NOT bring the sheriff in when the outcome of a random vote is much more likely to result in someone being sheriff who has the village's best interests in mind? Don't get me wrong, I understand how it's an awesome idea to have the sheriff be the Seer. Lots of power there. But until the Seer outs themself in a definitive way (which as we've discussed can be faked with a willingly suicidal wolf), there's no way to be sure. With two people dying every night (until the Serial Killer is targeted by the wolves, of course) our odds of choosing someone sympathetic to our cause go down and down with every passing day. Can anyone explain to me clearly why this reasoning is wrong? Otherwise, I suggest we all vote someone into being the sheriff.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:19:35 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2563048	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#115 #116 #120	#113
	Starryshadows takes a seat on a wall to better address the gathering, munching on a sardine. "I'm taking a page from your book, Ophiomancer. Eating disgusting things may help dissuade the wolves - or the candy-loving serial killer - from targeting me." "I have another point of logic to bring up here. The wolves could be any one of us, right? Any one at all? So, who hasn't done much talking at this point? Who among us is keeping silent - because it seems likely there are a few - hoping to avoid bringing attention to themselves? It seems fairly likely that the established veterans who are hotly debating points of strategy likely include a wolf here... but that we may have several wolves scattered among those who say little. I'd be interested in seeing stats on who contributes the least to these discussions, who explains their choices thus far the least. Anyone have that ifnormation ready to hand?" He pops another sardine into his mouth with an air of curiosity.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:24:15 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2563304	Parent:#83 Siblings:(none) Children:#121 #123	#114
	"I've been trying to figure out whether the slogan on the wall, 'Waffles Kill', was a ruse designed to direct our attention most obviously to Ophiomancer, or a ballsy ruse by same to try and avoid detection. Right now I'm inclined to believe the latter, actually; it seems a little too far-fetched a ploy for the wolves, while it's just the sort of extremely gutsy thing a hardened predator might try to throw us off the scent. For now, I vote ophiomancer for lack of a much better option, as I'm unconvinced of Baronlaw's guilt. I'm holding final judgement in reserve."

	Time:2009-09-22 23:28:41 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:162280#2563560	Parent:#113 Siblings:#116 #120 Children:(none)	#115
	There is also the fact that some people may be at work and will have over a hundred comments to wade through before making any decision. Though i do notice there's alot of momentum going towards one snarky charchter....

	Time:2009-09-22 23:35:30 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:(none) Link:162280#2563816	Parent:#113 Siblings:#115 #120 Children:(none)	#116
	Ah, that's kind of a catch 22-if you're too quiet, it's suspicious, if you're too vocal, same thing! Also, sardines are yuck.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:35:50 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2564328	Parent:#96 Siblings:#99 #137 Children:(none)	#117
	screen captures, discussing what was sent in private livejournal posts, talking about the game with other players out of millers hollow live journal posts all are not allowed . . . commenting on what was said in your initial role distribution before the game, etc . . . all not allowed . . .

	Time:2009-09-22 23:36:59 GMT Author:maniakes Subject:(none) Link:162280#2564584	Parent:#112 Siblings:#140 Children:#126	#118
	It seems to me like the notion of us EVER having a 'known' quantity is rather unlikely. This is actually not the case -- by mid-game, there are generally several known good guys at any one time. If the seer survives long enough to announce his results (either because he's about to be lynched, or because he's collected enough information that it's worth revealing his identity to make sure the information gets out), then we find out the names of several proven non-wolves. You also tend to get specials announcing themselves in midgame for a variety of reasons. When someone claims to be a specific special, either nobody else claims to be that special instead (in which case it's pretty certain he's for real), the real special contests the false claim, or a wolf falsely contets the real claim. In either of the latter cases, we then know that of those two people, exactly one is a wolf, and we can check by lynching one. There are two specials that are considered self-verifying: the Witch (if a wolf claims to be the witch, the real witch poisons him the next night), and the Hunter (if two people are claiming to be the hunter, lynch one of them. Even if you lynch the wrong one, the retaliation shot will kill the wolf pretending to be the hunter). Because of this, wolves almost never claim to be the Witch or the Hunter. Strategically, it's best to wait until midgame before outing specials, since wolves will usually eat known specials almost immediately. The two times to out a special are when the special is in danger of being lynched, or when a majority of non-wolves remaining are specials (at which point the specials usually out themselves en-masse so the lynch victims are narrowed down the the wolves and a very small number of ordinary villagers). The best times for a sheriff vote are when there are multiple proven non-wolfs so we can give the badge to one and have other good candidates to inherit if the wolves kill the sheriff, or as a desperation move when the wolves are close to winning. Neither is the case this early in the game.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:39:30 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2564840	Parent:#103 Siblings:#106 #108 Children:(none)	#119
	lovers do not know the roles of the other lover, and unless they cheated should not know the role of the other lover . . . cheating will be punishable by being banned from every werewolf game I run, and encouragement of every other person I know who runs werewolf games to ban them as well . . . this probably means the person will never play werewolf again in California at the very least . . .

	Time:2009-09-22 23:39:33 GMT Author:maniakes Subject:(none) Link:162280#2565096	Parent:#113 Siblings:#115 #116 Children:#122 #124 #139	#120
	Historically, "quiet" tends to mean "busy in real life" or "limited internet access" much more often than "wolf".

	Time:2009-09-22 23:44:37 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2565352	Parent:#114 Siblings:#123 Children:#125	#121
	it's called flavor text so people have something fun to read as they hear their friends and neighbors have died . . . nothing in the descriptions means anything at all except who died and what role they played . . . everything else is simply made up flavor text . . . names are usually pretty random (often pulled from people who voted for the lynched) . . . yes sometimes the wolves may give me something humorous to add . . . but it's so hard to differentiate between my writing and their little adds that you might as well drink wine from another village . . . "waffles kill" was me being funny :)

	Time:2009-09-22 23:44:40 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2565608	Parent:#120 Siblings:#124 #139 Children:#127	#122
	Starry thinks about this while eating another sardine, and makes a face. "I agree with you, Lorriet. They are yuck. That's the point. Fairly spoken, Maniakes. As someone busy myself, I understand not having a ton of time. But in that case, playing the game at all - a game based around guesswork using social interaction and analysis - is a bit of a stretch if you can't take the time to contribute. I just think it's worth looking at."

	Time:2009-09-22 23:46:11 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2565864	Parent:#114 Siblings:#121 Children:(none)	#123
	Hey, I was surprised to see it there too. :P And to be frank, anyone who knows me can tell you I'm absolutely not the kind of person who would pull a stunt like that. I would never put myself into the line of fire. There's too high a risk of it backfiring and I am absolutely not a risk-taker, especially when I'm in a room full of people I mostly don't know and I can't guess what their reactions would be. I'm more of a blunt hammer when it comes to debating my point, as you'll see if you look through my threads, and scrawling something like that across the wall would just complicate things for me -- IS complicating things for me. :P It's just not my style.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:46:55 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:162280#2566120	Parent:#120 Siblings:#122 #139 Children:#131	#124
	Speaking of which, I will have limited (iPhone) to no internet this Friday. Just mentioning it now so folks don't start sharpening their pitchforks.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:47:04 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2566376	Parent:#121 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#125
	Oh. Well, see, there you go. Not me. :)

	Time:2009-09-22 23:48:13 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:162280#2566632	Parent:#118 Siblings:(none) Children:#129 #149	#126
	"Hmm. You're probably right here. But looking at this from an uninformed perspective, I fail to see how it's a bad thing to make the vote now. When the extra vote isn't really going to help the wolves, but our chances of electing a non-wolf go up. I agree that if we don't do it now, we ought to wait until mid-game or so. I just think it'd be beneficial to have it in play now, when it'll be easier to get the vote through.

	Time:2009-09-22 23:53:50 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2566888	Parent:#122 Siblings:(none) Children:#128 #132	#127
	That's not a very good way of looking at things. I know for a fact that evilben isn't replying right now because he's at work. He's not quiet because he's guilty or innocent, he just can't participate until he's home. After work, however, he'll be all over this like white on rice. Some people can't avoid having a life. Game has to work around it. I, however, am unemployed at the moment, so I'm posting like a opium addict chasing the magic dragon. :)

	Time:2009-09-22 23:59:27 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:162280#2567144	Parent:#127 Siblings:#132 Children:(none)	#128
	I'm off today and tomorrow, and will be working from 2-1030 thurs/friday... is game play suspended on the weekends? I seem to remember that last year...

	Time:2009-09-23 00:23:21 GMT Author:maniakes Subject:(none) Link:162280#2567400	Parent:#126 Siblings:#149 Children:(none)	#129
	Maybe, if we were assigning the badge randomly. But we're not. Most of the villagers will be voting randomsly because we don't know who the wolves are, but the wolves will be voting non-randomly because the do know who the wolves are. The wolves also have the option of eating sheriffs until a sheriff guesses poorly and wills his badge to a wolf. A wolf-sheriff is theoretically lynchable, but early in the game everyone's guesses are mostly luck, so it's very hard to tell a malicious sheriff from a bad guesser until mid-game. And once you get into mid-game, then the extra vote will be a major help to the wolves.

	Time:2009-09-23 00:40:26 GMT Author:chessiekitty Subject:(none) Link:162280#2567656	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#135	#130
	One of the best things about early days are all the posts. So many posts! So fun to read! One of the worst things about early days are all the posts. Too many posts! Too many to read! I don't quite know where to go at this point. I guess I'm waiting to see what slownewsday has to say. I am abstaining from the whole sheriff debate. I think we have a greater chance of randomly picking a villager now. But it does seem too early for a sheriff. And whichever way I vote someone will think I'm a wolf. Well, by abstaining someone will think I'm a wolf. I'll try to check again before too long. And I'll check back in the morning too. What with work and a four year old (who was born at the tail end of one of these very games) I don't get much internet time anymore.

	Time:2009-09-23 00:42:56 GMT Author:chessiekitty Subject:(none) Link:162280#2567912	Parent:#124 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#131
	Pitchforks are so cliche... Why can't we have a mob of angry villagers with... I don't know, tridents maybe. Same reach and damage type, but so much more pizazz!

	Time:2009-09-23 01:03:44 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:162280#2568168	Parent:#127 Siblings:#128 Children:(none)	#132
	Like stink on shit! I'm back from the Miller's Hollow stables.

	Time:2009-09-23 01:30:39 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:162280#2568424	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#133
	For the record, look at the voting records of the previous EvilBen clones. We always move to elect a sheriff early because we have a thing for getting all the specials in game possible. Go Werehamster and Little Girl! Anyways, I'm at a loss for voting. Slownewsday and Ophiomancer still look pretty suspicious for previously stated reasons. Baronlaw may be, but the biggest thing people have against him is his seconding my motion for Sheriff, so no. Stride is evil. We know this. No reason to vote for her. Cambler and Giantlaser do prove to be cunning wolves, but niether has done anything incriminating. I'll have to go with my standby in voting against Math and Logic. Those almost always get me killed. UNVOTE ABSTAIN VOTE LOGOPHYLIA1 May change later.

	Time:2009-09-23 02:43:41 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:162280#2568680	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#134
	Well, it's been a while now and baronlaw hasn't said anything else in his defense. So I vote baronlaw unless he says something to change my mind.

	Time:2009-09-23 02:47:03 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:(none) Link:162280#2568936	Parent:#130 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#135
	No way, we shouldn't wait for a sheriff. Last time we waited we ended up with Hungry and Hollow as Sheriff and we all know how that turned out. We were wolf chow!

	Time:2009-09-23 02:50:49 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:My computer at home is dead, so I have to choose Link:162280#2569192	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#145	#136
	Since I don't have a clue and Gwydion82 said that we should lynch him... Vote Gwydion82 !

	Time:2009-09-23 02:59:27 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2569448	Parent:#96 Siblings:#99 #117 Children:(none)	#137
	Yea, by that logic, everyone here could have told anyone else who they are. Regardless, the bottom line is, the lovers don't need to do that. Having been a lover approximately six million times, you can usually figure it out - especially if you've played a game or two with your lover before. There are ways to reveal it within the game that other people won't pick up on.

	Time:2009-09-23 03:03:22 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2569704	Parent:#88 Siblings:#94 Children:#146	#138
	I disagree with your first postulate. First of all, the villager votes for sheriff are scattered. None of us know who to trust, so we're fragmented. The wolves know each other, giving them a voting block of 4 for one of their own. It's not insurmountable, but as splintered as the rest of us are, that's a very heavy challenge for villagers to overcome. Secondly, as soon as we elect a sheriff, if we get a villager, the wolves will eat that person. Then either that person named a successor, in which case we have to trust their judgment that they didn't name a wolf, or we vote again. Every time we vote, the odds of electing a bad guy increase. Thirdly, what is the benefit to villagers, at this point, of a sheriff? We don't need his second vote to override the wolves. The wolves are such a minority at this point that their votes have significantly less power than they will during the end-game, which is when a sheriff would be useful.

	Time:2009-09-23 03:05:16 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2569960	Parent:#120 Siblings:#122 #124 Children:(none)	#139
	I agree.

	Time:2009-09-23 03:06:51 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2570216	Parent:#112 Siblings:#118 Children:(none)	#140
	My reasoning as to why a sheriff is a bad move is here: http://millershollow.livejournal.com/162280.html?thread=2569704#t2569704

	Time:2009-09-23 04:36:03 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2570472	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#143	#141
	vote baronlaw. Just because he's got the most votes so far, and he is another dangerous wolf type I've seen in action.

	Time:2009-09-23 04:37:14 GMT Author:daedalus4096 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2570728	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#144 #151	#142
	(( I don't seem to have made it onto the watchers' list. It'd be nice to see all sides of what's happening, if it's not a bother. Thanks! Feel free to delete this post after. ))

	Time:2009-09-23 06:41:23 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:(none) Link:162280#2571240	Parent:#141 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#143
	vote baronlaw I think he's playing the "noisy wolf" role this game.

	Time:2009-09-23 07:26:28 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:162280#2571752	Parent:#142 Siblings:#151 Children:(none)	#144
	well since you dont exist i cant vote for you...

	Time:2009-09-23 09:00:55 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: My computer at home is dead, so I have to choose Link:162280#2572008	Parent:#136 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#145
	no vote for baronlaw, he wants to kill me... and he'dbyfar thefavorite.

	Time:2009-09-23 09:54:10 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: My two cents worth Link:162280#2572264	Parent:#138 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#146
	The wolves know each other, giving them a voting block of 4 for one of their own. It's not insurmountable, but as splintered as the rest of us are, that's a very heavy challenge for villagers to overcome. Secondly, as soon as we elect a sheriff, if we get a villager, the wolves will eat that person. This is why I don't think we should have a sheriff. At the moment, the villagers know very little and are in chaos but we have numbers on our side. When we start getting cut down but have more knowledge, a sheriff will be very useful.

	Time:2009-09-23 13:59:05 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:162280#2572776	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #148 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:#152 #153 #154 #156	#147
	I have a couple things to say. I'm new here, and no one knows me, so I'm completely trustworthy. I'd make an awesome sheriff. Two, I think the best way to avoid the wolves is to make them think we're already dead. To facilitate that, I will be making a coat out of cuddlycthulu as a means of protection. Third, to honor the memory of my soon-to-be coat, vote ophiomancer

	Time:2009-09-23 14:42:05 GMT Author:chessiekitty Subject:(none) Link:162280#2573288	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #150 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#148
	They have a new computer use policy at work. So I will only be able to get online before and after work and maybe at lunch (if one of the two "free use" computers in the lunch room is free). I still don't really see any patterns or suspicious behavior to really direct my voting. I'm going to vote slownewsday since they also claimed to be a wolf. Perhaps they did that knowing that gorillashaman was not a wolf, and that when it was proven that gorillashaman was not a wolf that we wouldn't vote for slownewsday because we would think they were a villager as well. Did that make sense? I need some caffiene.

	Time:2009-09-23 14:43:09 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2573544	Parent:#126 Siblings:#129 Children:(none)	#149
	Statistically, a sheriff is GOOD for the wolves at this point, as they KNOW who the other wolves are and can use the extra vote to make sure a non-wolf gets lynched whereas the extra vote does NOT benefit the townsfolk unless the sheriff is the seer. The chances of the seer getting the sheriff position is actually LESS than a wolf getting it, as the wolves can be sure to vote for one of their own as the sheriff whereas we townsfolk have only a 4% chance of voting for the seer. TRUE, we have a 85% chance of voting a townsperson into the position by simple random selection, BUT the wolves get a 100% chance of not selecting one. In the absence of more information, the townsfolk have a better chance of getting an uninformed villager casting the extra vote blindly, or even a WOLF getting the extra vote, then they have a chance to get a beneficial result, while the wolves have a good shot at getting an advantage out of it. THUS - bad for villagers.

	Time:2009-09-23 15:32:54 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2573800	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #158 #159 #161 Children:(none)	#150
	Allright - wasn't trying to wait untill the last minute for this - just wanted to give ample opportunity for replay before I voted. VOTE Baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-23 16:16:53 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2574312	Parent:#142 Siblings:#144 Children:(none)	#151
	added to watchers list, sorry

	Time:2009-09-23 16:34:35 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:162280#2574824	Parent:#147 Siblings:#153 #154 #156 Children:(none)	#152
	To facilitate that, I will be making a coat out of cuddlycthulu as a means of protection. blink blink blink

	Time:2009-09-23 16:43:03 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:162280#2575080	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #154 #156 Children:#155	#153
	Um...ew. I'll be over there. Waaaay over there... (psst. Guys. I know we are hunting wolves but...remember that serial killer who's also running about...)

	Time:2009-09-23 16:47:36 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2575336	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #153 #156 Children:(none)	#154
	I'm new here, and no one knows me, so I'm completely trustworthy. Ah, but that means no one knows your style or your gameplay patterns, which means we have less information by which to judge if you're acting strangely :P Wheels within wheels!

	Time:2009-09-23 16:49:47 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2575592	Parent:#153 Siblings:(none) Children:#157	#155
	The problem there (and the reason I'm not a huge fan of the role) is that the serial killer has the same motives as a villager - except for when they kill someone. But since they're not trying to misdirect anyone towards lynching villagers, it's harder to find clues that point to them.

	Time:2009-09-23 17:05:02 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:does that make you a... Link:162280#2575848	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #153 #154 Children:(none)	#156
	FURRY!!! Wolf Wolf Wolf!!!

	Time:2009-09-23 17:05:18 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:162280#2576104	Parent:#155 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#157
	Well ... allmost - the killer wants the wolves dead, but to WIN, the killer wants to be the last man standing ... This seems very unliekly as an outcome, but ...

	Time:2009-09-23 17:06:20 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:unvote and vote Link:162280#2576360	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #159 #161 Children:#160	#158
	unvote gwydion82 Vote faymar for making a coat out of cuddlycthulhu!

	Time:2009-09-23 17:36:09 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:(none) Link:162280#2576872	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #161 Children:(none)	#159
	vote baronlaw

	Time:2009-09-23 17:40:05 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: unvote and vote Link:162280#2577128	Parent:#158 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#160
	Yeah, definitely my next target, for that. Unless the wolves do us the favor.

	Time:2009-09-23 18:00:19 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:162280#2579688	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #4 #5 #10 #12 #14 #21 #34 #47 #65 #69 #104 #111 #112 #113 #130 #133 #134 #136 #141 #142 #147 #148 #150 #158 #159 Children:(none)	#161
	POST CLOSED

Vote History

evilben	vote	abstain	2009-09-22 19:43:54 GMT	#5
dragonattack	vote	slownewsday	2009-09-22 20:07:06 GMT	#21
baronlaw	vote	slownewsday	2009-09-22 20:17:44 GMT	#29
gnatdbug	vote	stride	2009-09-22 20:23:07 GMT	#34
rustymaggot	vote	gwydion82	2009-09-22 20:23:31 GMT	#35
stride	vote	abstain	2009-09-22 20:29:12 GMT	#41
snoopyh42	vote	ophiomancer	2009-09-22 20:34:53 GMT	#47
slojae	vote	giantlaser	2009-09-22 20:55:12 GMT	#65
baronlaw	unvote	slownewsday	2009-09-22 21:02:17 GMT	#69
baronlaw	vote	slojae	2009-09-22 21:02:17 GMT	#69
slojae	unvote	giantlaser	2009-09-22 21:18:54 GMT	#78
slojae	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-22 21:18:54 GMT	#78
hungryandhollow	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-22 21:19:59 GMT	#79
sylvan	vote	ophiomancer	2009-09-22 21:28:27 GMT	#83
cambler	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-22 22:19:55 GMT	#92
faymar	vote	slownewsday	2009-09-22 22:25:45 GMT	#97
maniakes	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-22 22:51:33 GMT	#104
smurfetts_lamb	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-22 23:12:35 GMT	#111
starryshadows	vote	ophiomancer	2009-09-22 23:24:15 GMT	#114
evilben	unvote	abstain	2009-09-23 01:30:39 GMT	#133
evilben	vote	logophylia1	2009-09-23 01:30:39 GMT	#133
ophiomancer	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-23 02:43:41 GMT	#134
sonicbunny	vote	gwydion82	2009-09-23 02:50:49 GMT	#136
gwydion82	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-23 04:36:03 GMT	#141
giantlaser	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-23 06:41:23 GMT	#143
flowen	vote	ophiomancer	2009-09-23 13:59:05 GMT	#147
chessiekitty	vote	slownewsday	2009-09-23 14:42:05 GMT	#148
logophylia1	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-23 15:32:54 GMT	#150
sonicbunny	unvote	gwydion82	2009-09-23 17:06:20 GMT	#158
sonicbunny	vote	faymar	2009-09-23 17:06:20 GMT	#158
lorriet	vote	baronlaw	2009-09-23 17:36:09 GMT	#159

Vote Summary

10 against	baronlaw	:	lorriet logophylia1 gwydion82 ophiomancer smurfetts_lamb slojae maniakes cambler giantlaser hungryandhollow
4 against	ophiomancer	:	snoopyh42 starryshadows flowen sylvan
3 against	slownewsday	:	faymar dragonattack chessiekitty
1 against	slojae	:	baronlaw
1 against	faymar	:	sonicbunny
1 against	stride	:	gnatdbug
1 against	logophylia1	:	evilben
1 against	gwydion82	:	rustymaggot
1 against	abstain	:	stride
Posted but no vote		:	creepyduck daedalus4096 millershollow

Posting Statistics

posts by	ophiomancer	:	(24)	#4 #9 #11 #17 #19 #22 #23 #33 #48 #51 #52 #60 #63 #66 #76 #85 #91 #101 #108 #110 #123 #125 #127 #134
posts by	logophylia1	:	(16)	#16 #39 #46 #53 #59 #61 #68 #71 #87 #99 #106 #107 #109 #149 #150 #157
posts by	hungryandhollow	:	(12)	#1 #73 #75 #77 #79 #80 #137 #138 #139 #140 #154 #155
posts by	baronlaw	:	(12)	#8 #25 #26 #27 #29 #40 #43 #45 #54 #67 #69 #74
posts by	slojae	:	(9)	#65 #70 #72 #78 #82 #115 #128 #144 #145
posts by	millershollow	:	(9)	#7 #24 #50 #90 #117 #119 #121 #151 #161
posts by	dragonattack	:	(8)	#21 #30 #36 #44 #64 #88 #93 #95
posts by	smurfetts_lamb	:	(7)	#3 #6 #18 #96 #100 #103 #111
posts by	starryshadows	:	(6)	#105 #112 #113 #114 #122 #126
posts by	stride	:	(6)	#14 #20 #41 #56 #124 #153
posts by	gnatdbug	:	(6)	#31 #34 #37 #38 #62 #81
posts by	lorriet	:	(5)	#15 #86 #94 #116 #159
posts by	maniakes	:	(5)	#102 #104 #118 #120 #129
posts by	evilben	:	(4)	#5 #13 #132 #133
posts by	gwydion82	:	(4)	#12 #98 #141 #160
posts by	sonicbunny	:	(4)	#135 #136 #156 #158
posts by	rustymaggot	:	(4)	#28 #32 #35 #42
posts by	snoopyh42	:	(4)	#47 #49 #55 #57
posts by	faymar	:	(3)	#97 #146 #152
posts by	chessiekitty	:	(3)	#130 #131 #148
posts by	creepyduck	:	(2)	#84 #89
posts by	cambler	:	(2)	#2 #92
posts by	sylvan	:	(2)	#58 #83
posts by	giantlaser	:	(2)	#10 #143
posts by	daedalus4096	:	(1)	#142
posts by	flowen	:	(1)	#147

Comment Tree Summary