millershollow - Day 3

Link:165096 Sat Jan 23 00:18:23 2010

Ravens squawk in the trees around Millers Hollow as the sun peaks over the hills. The birds no that death has come to the small hamlet and are anticipating their feast.

The townsfolk gather slowly in the town square and like yesterday realize that two of their numbers are missing. First is

maniakes who they find horrible dismembered in his cottage, blood and body parts tossed around half hazardly.

The second is peculiar, as the carnage from

maniakes's house leads out the back door where in the back alleyway they find

chessiekitty, carved up nicely with precision skill, custards lying untouched around her dead body. The perculiar thing of note though: the blood, fur and claws still apparent on her body!

SUMMARY:

maniakes the VILLAGER is DEAD!

chessiekitty the WEREWOLF is DEAD!

	Time:2009-09-23 18:46:16 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Curiouser and curiouser Link:165096#2584808	Parent:(none) Siblings:#2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#30	#1
	Interesting developments indeed ...

	Time:2009-09-23 18:47:01 GMT Author:stride Subject:Status Link:165096#2585320	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#8 #10 #34 #35	#2
	LIVING: cambler dragonattack evilben faymar flipperchaz flowen giantlaser gnatdbug gwydion82 hungryandhollow logophylia1 lorriet maniakes ophiomancer ragnarok_now rustymaggot snoopyh42 slojae slownewsday smurfetts_lamb sonicbunny starryshadows stride sylvan DEAD: gorillashaman: Villager myshanter: Villager cuddlycthulhu: Cupid baronlaw: Ralph Nader maniakes: Villager chessiekitty: Werewolf Special roles remaining: Wolves (x3) Seer Witch Afflicted Hunter Bodyguard Martyr Ghost Serial Killer

	Time:2009-09-23 18:48:12 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2585576	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#3
	Wow, the Serial Killer got a wolf. Sweet!

	Time:2009-09-23 18:48:15 GMT Author:cambler Subject:(none) Link:165096#2585832	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#4
	Looks like our serial killer did us a favor last night.

	Time:2009-09-23 18:48:22 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2586088	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#7	#5
	Hooray! Someone killed a wolf! That means that there's still three of you out there...

	Time:2009-09-23 19:04:21 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:(none) Link:165096#2586856	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#9 #16	#6
	Interesting. Chessie didn't post much yesterday, so there's not much to go on there. She voted for slonewsday, but by that time, it was mostly a throw-away, since Baronlaw was pretty much a goner.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:11:27 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2587624	Parent:#5 Siblings:(none) Children:#11	#7
	And an afflicted.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:15:56 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2587880	Parent:#2 Siblings:#10 #34 #35 Children:#20 #58 #68 #75 #105	#8
	the baker. the waffles. the custard. the scone. the candy. hmmm

	Time:2009-09-23 19:17:02 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2588136	Parent:#6 Siblings:#16 Children:#12	#9
	so you're suggesting that may have been a cover?

	Time:2009-09-23 19:20:07 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2588392	Parent:#2 Siblings:#8 #34 #35 Children:#23	#10
	we're even between specials and villagers... does this mean we'll actually survive this time?

	Time:2009-09-23 19:20:14 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2588648	Parent:#7 Siblings:(none) Children:#44	#11
	And a serial killer. They may have done us a favor this night, but we're all at risk while they run free.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:20:35 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:(none) Link:165096#2588904	Parent:#9 Siblings:(none) Children:#13	#12
	Yeah, I guess I am.. that Chessie voted for her doesn't clear her (slownewsday) from being a wolf. But it's a pretty light suggestion, with not much to back it up. Not enough for me to put a vote behind it.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:23:45 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2589160	Parent:#12 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#13
	Yep - I had been analyzing the same thing and had come to similar conclusions. The lack of data combined with the REQUIREMENT to speculate is ... frustrating.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:26:29 GMT Author:evilben Subject:Well now. Link:165096#2589416	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#27	#14
	Nothing much to go on. I figured Baronlaw wasn't a wolf. Just had a feeling. Looks like we're back to Slownewsday and Ophomancer as the most suspicious. I'm gonna VOTE Slownewsday for now and re-evaluate when I get off work. Back to the salt mines.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:29:13 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2589672	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#15
	well someone has to get the ball rolling... and studying the list of active players there is one who never posted yesterday... trying to keep quiet so no one will notice they're even playing perhaps? vote ragnarok_now

	Time:2009-09-23 19:29:36 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2589928	Parent:#6 Siblings:#9 Children:#17 #22	#16
	I know we're just grasping at straws, here, but notice that while gorillashaman was very vocal about being a wolf, and likely attempting to get voted off, for whatever reason, slownewsday only posted about being a wolf once, and hasn't said anything since. Vote slownewsday because someone's got to do it. May change, based on more info.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:43:58 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2590184	Parent:#16 Siblings:#22 Children:#18 #25	#17
	I was thinking the same thing. Plus, by gorillashaman's reasoning, even if she isn't a wolf, it's unlikely she's a special. Vote slonewsday.

	Time:2009-09-23 19:50:14 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2590440	Parent:#17 Siblings:#25 Children:(none)	#18
	Although gorillashaman's nifty algorithm will probably understand what I meant, let's do that again without the typo anyway... Vote slownewsday.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:12:57 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2590696	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#24 #29 #39	#19
	You know, this is interesting, because I was sure that I was going to be killed or eaten last night, given that there is a core group of people who keep voting for me to be lynched for really no good reason. I think that among these people are either a werewolf or the serial killer. In particular, I'd like to challenge starryshadows to explain something to me. I stated that waffles kill, which we have seen to be true. I suggested we eat nasty-tasting things like brussel sprouts, spinach or sour kraut to make ourselves less tasty to those who might eat us and therefor giving us a better chance of living another night. starryshadows agreed with the logic of my thinking and yesterday began eating sardines. BUT! He voted for me to be lynched, and therein lies the snare. I was trustworthy enough that he decided to take my advice...but then UNtrustworthy enough to lynch? Which is it, starryshadows? Am I here to help the villagers stay alive, or am I some wolf or serial killer out for blood? Are you really so foolish to take the advice of someone you think is out to kill you, or did you slip up and make a mistake by being so obvious about voting to lynch someone just to keep the heat off of yourself and/or your friends? And isn't it just a little odd that to keep the beasties away you eat....sardines? My cat loves sardines. My dogs loved sardines. Sardines are not a deterrent to animals, they are a tasty snack. It doesn't add up, people.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:19:50 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2590952	Parent:#8 Siblings:#58 #68 #75 #105 Children:#43 #53	#20
	She has a theory....it could be bunnies...

	Time:2009-09-23 20:20:15 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:My take Link:165096#2591208	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#28	#21
	Well, let's get my opinion on this rolling. I'm very suspicious of Gwydion at the moment. His opinions at the start of the game made me a little suspicious, and his voting record has been nothing other than bandwagonning. Yes, he's a new player, but I think that I'm going to take a first step, and VOTE Gwydion82.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:20:21 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:(none) Link:165096#2591464	Parent:#16 Siblings:#17 Children:(none)	#22
	Agreed. vote slownewsday. That comment is still the most solid clue we have to go on.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:25:31 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2591720	Parent:#10 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#23
	I'll sleep a lot more soundly when we are sans a couple more. Digging for little logic help I can find now.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:26:07 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2591976	Parent:#19 Siblings:#29 #39 Children:#26 #42	#24
	the wolves don't eat you, because they're sure we villagers will lynch you soon anyway. They are likely to eat people with fewer votes as often as possible, unless they are specifically gunning for the serial killer, which they don't need to based on the numbers yet. We need to keep an eye on those without many votes, or those that get a lot of votes, but then get saved by a "dogpile" later. Well, more to the point, we need to not be deterred from one target to another, because the math is still the same, and only the desires of the wolves to trick us remains.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:30:07 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2592232	Parent:#17 Siblings:#18 Children:#49	#25
	I'd sy that Slownewsday probably just was trying to bow out of the game, and since Gorilla kinda one-upped her, she's still stuck here, but inactive. My guess would be that she's safe,for now, to keep alive, and we can always lynch her later. After looking at the chronological lists, I've got a theory, posted earlier. I think we can do better than lynching a non-entity, and giving the people we're looking for an easy bandwagon to jump on. I like information, more than I like easy kills.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:34:07 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2592488	Parent:#24 Siblings:#42 Children:(none)	#26
	I will have a response for this after there has been a bit more discussion today. ;)

	Time:2009-09-23 20:35:21 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: Well now. Link:165096#2592744	Parent:#14 Siblings:(none) Children:#31	#27
	I'll sleep a lot more soundly when we are sans a couple more. Digging for little logic help I can find now.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:35:58 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: My take Link:165096#2593000	Parent:#21 Siblings:(none) Children:#32 #33	#28
	true, I don't have enough of a track record to go by. My voting was band wagoning, because I the two that have been removed thus far are dangerous when with the wolves, from the games I have read up on in preparation. Had I been a wolf, I would have followed suit with gorillashaman and claimed wolf, which is why this time I tried to start the voting today with slonewsday. I don't want to be starting the voting everyday, for fear of being lynched, or, if lucky, being killed by the wolves, but I don't want to sit back, and only join in, and let the people think that I'm letting them pick villagers and just jumping on. What I can promise is that, other than the first day, which was completely random, and the seer revealing themselves, I will not be changing my vote, once it's been cast. Lynch me if you must, but, since it is my first time, I would like to make it a little deeper into the game.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:46:12 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2593256	Parent:#19 Siblings:#24 #39 Children:#36	#29
	why does this make me think of a scene from the princess bride... something about never getting involved in a land war in asia...

	Time:2009-09-23 20:46:29 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: Curiouser and curiouser Link:165096#2593512	Parent:#1 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#30
	Indeed. The Ralph Nader doesn't know he's a Ralph Nader, right? He just thinks he's a vanilla villager? Well, the good news is one wolf less, anyway!

	Time:2009-09-23 20:48:20 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: Well now. Link:165096#2593768	Parent:#27 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#31
	Logic would be nice.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:49:21 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: My take Link:165096#2594024	Parent:#28 Siblings:#33 Children:(none)	#32
	hey i got taken out by the serial killer on day 2 my first time around I'm happy to survive past day 3 this time...8)

	Time:2009-09-23 20:49:55 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: My take Link:165096#2594280	Parent:#28 Siblings:#32 Children:#150	#33
	Lynch me if you must, but, since it is my first time, I would like to make it a little deeper into the game. But that is exactly what a werewolf would say!

	Time:2009-09-23 20:56:02 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2594536	Parent:#2 Siblings:#8 #10 #35 Children:(none)	#34
	One more useful summary. Adam's scripts note total posts, but they do not identify players that haven't posted at all. So, here are the surviving players and their total number of posts Days 1 and 2, sorted descending. 1 slownewsday 2 flipperchaz 2 ragnarok_now 4 flowen 5 sylvan 6 sonicbunny 8 evilben 8 giantlaser 8 gnatdbug 8 smurfetts_lamb 9 rustymaggot 10 lorriet 10 starryshadows 11 cambler 11 dragonattack 12 slojae 13 faymar 13 hungryandhollow 14 gwydion82 15 snoopyh42 19 stride 28 logophylia1 42 ophiomancer So we have no silent players, but we do have some very quiet ones.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:57:27 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2594792	Parent:#2 Siblings:#8 #10 #34 Children:#63 #70	#35
	VOTE STRIDE** I am still pretty strongly bothered by the listings. And it has been a wolf telling me its not before.

	Time:2009-09-23 20:59:47 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2595048	Parent:#29 Siblings:(none) Children:#45	#36
	Bahaha ;D

	Time:2009-09-23 20:59:56 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2595304	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#37
	hey mr/mrs serial killer... did you get a look at the other wolves sneaking off after killing maniakes? i mean you got one of them....

	Time:2009-09-23 21:03:23 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2595560	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#40 #41	#38
	Well, interesting developments. I'm hesitant to vote for slownewsday if only because i haven't even seen them post since they claimed to be a wolf. Have they commented at all? I believe inactive players are auto-killed, so if that's the case there would be no need to kill them. On the other hand, I really have no other leads, and baronlaw being a villager has reminded me how bad my guesses usually are.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:03:49 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2595816	Parent:#19 Siblings:#24 #29 Children:#50 #56	#39
	To be frank, ophiomancer, I was baiting you a little to see which way you turned. I found all the waffle-talk, combined with what was found by the bodies the next morning, suspicious. It's one of the few truly frivolous discussions that've been had so far, and lo and behold, cuddlycthulhu turns up dead. The first day was more or less random chance, based on nothing but frivolity... that and a desire not to change my votes, as I think that reflects poorly unless the evidence is strong. The second vote was all on the waffle issue, which as I mentioned, I found suspicious. I was expecting to see my name on the dead list this morning, which would have keenly pointed the finger of everyone's ire at you. As it is, my suspicion is eased a bit today. As for the accusation of eating things that animals like, I've never in my life met a cat or dog who enjoyed waffles, crepes, or scones, especially smothered in sugar, fruit, and syrup. These wolves are obviously far from typical palates.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:06:53 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2596584	Parent:#38 Siblings:#41 Children:#46 #47	#40
	I think in the rules it says that if a player doesn't vote for two consecutive days they get booted.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:07:59 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2596840	Parent:#38 Siblings:#40 Children:(none)	#41
	I feel the same way about maniakes. I had a strong hunch, which now is proven totally wrong. As for slownewsday, I'm hesitant to jump on the bandwagon, even though it's already looking fairly grim for her. That one comment in the wake of gorillashaman's ploy was highly suspicious, but with nothing to back it up... well, it's either a player backing out fo the game, or a wolf realizing how stupid they were to try that ploy and now staying quiet to dilute suspicion. Back to square one with most of my reasoning, it seems...

	Time:2009-09-23 21:08:29 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2597096	Parent:#24 Siblings:#26 Children:#81	#42
	that's assuming he/she's not a wolf him/herself... he/she would not be on the menu if he/she was a guest at the table.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:12:05 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2597352	Parent:#20 Siblings:#53 Children:(none)	#43
	grin

	Time:2009-09-23 21:14:03 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2597608	Parent:#11 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#44
	I was thinking that same thing. I wonder if we can start examining victims and thus deduce anything that way? Probably too early, but... chessiekitty and myshanter... neither one said much, though chessie at least jumped in on a couple of things yesterday evening. No votes from the latter, only one from the former... I think this is all still too tangled.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:17:06 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2597864	Parent:#36 Siblings:(none) Children:#60	#45
	grin I swear, if Ophiomancer turns up dead tomorrow, I'm going to have to use the 'you guessed wrong' line, and then I'm totally going to be killed for it.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:18:08 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:165096#2598120	Parent:#40 Siblings:#47 Children:#51	#46
	Doesn't vote or doesn't post?

	Time:2009-09-23 21:18:33 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2598376	Parent:#40 Siblings:#46 Children:#48	#47
	oh my god your icon i just noticed it and now i am lol'ing

	Time:2009-09-23 21:19:47 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2598632	Parent:#47 Siblings:(none) Children:#55	#48
	>:D I am making a better one right now.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:21:32 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2598888	Parent:#25 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#49
	In active people eventually commit suicide in this town.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:22:51 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2599144	Parent:#39 Siblings:#56 Children:#54	#50
	Wow, you need to meet my pets then because my cat is a marshmallow whore. :)

	Time:2009-09-23 21:24:38 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2599400	Parent:#46 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#51
	Doesn't vote.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:26:56 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2599656	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#65	#52
	Given the villagers that have been executed thus far, I'm really not sure which way to turn. But because it's already been established that she's evil anyway... vote stride

	Time:2009-09-23 21:27:18 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2599912	Parent:#20 Siblings:#43 Children:(none)	#53
	:D

	Time:2009-09-23 21:32:54 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2600424	Parent:#50 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#54
	I stand corrected.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:33:11 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2600680	Parent:#48 Siblings:(none) Children:#117	#55
	Buah hah hah hah.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:41:31 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2601448	Parent:#39 Siblings:#50 Children:#116	#56
	Also, you were baiting me? That seems an awfully convenient excuse to cover up an obvious slip-up. "Oh no, I did that on purpose!" That excuse never flies. It seems to me that you were talking to so many different people that you forgot what you were saying from one post to another. It's difficult to keep track of a lie sometimes, isn't it? Whereas I have been consistent this entire time. And of course it looked suspicious. It was meant to. The wolves obviously tried to frame me so the villagers would turn their wrath on me at some point, and then the wolves would gladly add their votes to the dogpile. Like I said earlier -- not a risk taker, don't like chances, cunning like a blunt hammer.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:47:08 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2601704	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#59 #61 #62 #64 #66 #151	#57
	I'm concerned. If slownewsday is merely unable to play the game shouldn't we just let the gamemaster eliminate her and not waste a lynching A policy of, they didn't post yesterday, lynch them, doesn't strike me as all that effective in ferreting out a wolf.

	Time:2009-09-23 21:50:32 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2602216	Parent:#8 Siblings:#20 #68 #75 #105 Children:(none)	#58
	Hey now! It was probably witches, evil witches!

	Time:2009-09-23 21:58:01 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2602728	Parent:#57 Siblings:#61 #62 #64 #66 #151 Children:(none)	#59
	ferreting out a wolf....i don't know why that phrase made me laugh.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:01:13 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2602984	Parent:#45 Siblings:(none) Children:#69 #72	#60
	unless ophiomncer is a wolf/cereal killer... then we will have guessed correctly

	Time:2009-09-23 22:01:32 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2603240	Parent:#57 Siblings:#59 #62 #64 #66 #151 Children:#67 #205	#61
	"I agree. A vote for slownewsday at this point is a wasted one. I am still quite suspicious of ophiomancer. I also have worries about hungryandhollow as they stirred up quite a bit of the targeting of baronlaw, who was not a wolf. I never thought he was a wolf. I think in the end, even if ophiomancer isn't a wolf, which I strongly suspect he is, his end would at least get rid of his chaotic theatrics which have been derisive and muddied discussion of more important facts. I vote ophiomancer."

	Time:2009-09-23 22:02:48 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2603496	Parent:#57 Siblings:#59 #61 #64 #66 #151 Children:(none)	#62
	Call me crazy, but that actually sounds like good logic.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:06:15 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2603752	Parent:#35 Siblings:#70 Children:(none)	#63
	I'm not sure why.. but both yesterday and today the other website hasn't been registering your votes... maybe its the * connected to it...

	Time:2009-09-23 22:06:27 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2604008	Parent:#57 Siblings:#59 #61 #62 #66 #151 Children:(none)	#64
	This is true. Unvote slownewsday. I abstain.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:16:22 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2604264	Parent:#52 Siblings:(none) Children:#71	#65
	Not a wolf! And I warned you not to google David Hasselhoff and Spongebob...

	Time:2009-09-23 22:17:18 GMT Author:stride Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2604520	Parent:#57 Siblings:#59 #61 #62 #64 #151 Children:(none)	#66
	I agree. Lynching someone who would otherwise commit suicide does seem like a wasted vote.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:17:47 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2604776	Parent:#61 Siblings:#205 Children:#77	#67
	If you'd like to discuss important facts, then by all means, discuss. Thus far, all you've done is vote with no discussion whatsoever. The only reason people aren't looking at you is because you make an average post of ONE per day, and like I said, that's only to vote. For all we know, you're one of the baddies who's pointing the finger at the loudest target while not contributing to the debate at all.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:18:29 GMT Author:stride Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2605032	Parent:#8 Siblings:#20 #58 #75 #105 Children:(none)	#68
	It's the starches and sugar!

	Time:2009-09-23 22:19:43 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2605288	Parent:#60 Siblings:#72 Children:(none)	#69
	cereal killer... facepalm Is that why there is always food at the murder scenes?

	Time:2009-09-23 22:22:31 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2605544	Parent:#35 Siblings:#63 Children:(none)	#70
	I noticed that too. You need to leave out the asterisks.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:23:27 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2605800	Parent:#65 Siblings:(none) Children:#84	#71
	Yes, but you know that's like an engraved invitation. You should know by now that I can't resist a taunt like that. And I, by now, should know better than to fall for it. Hence, why I'm not falling for your "Not a wolf" act.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:27:40 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2606312	Parent:#60 Siblings:#69 Children:#73	#72
	Cereal...killer... head-desk snort giggle Okay, I'm better now. No, not the cereal killer. I quite like cereal. Especially Raisin Bran Crunch. ;)

	Time:2009-09-23 22:29:37 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2606568	Parent:#72 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#73
	Ah, so it's not that you don't like waffles, it's just that you prefer simpler breakfasts?

	Time:2009-09-23 22:31:50 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:165096#2606824	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#76	#74
	I would like to point out that I totally did NOT make a coat out of any tentacle-based corpses.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:33:20 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2607080	Parent:#8 Siblings:#20 #58 #68 #105 Children:#198	#75
	Here's an idea seperate from but along the same lines of "cereal killer": There is always food at the crime scene, so maybe the serial killer is...hungry. eyes hungryandhollow** Just throwing the idea out there.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:34:17 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:165096#2607336	Parent:#74 Siblings:(none) Children:#79	#76
	in fact: vote flowen for having a two-syllable name starting with f!

	Time:2009-09-23 22:37:55 GMT Author:flowen Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2607592	Parent:#67 Siblings:(none) Children:#80	#77
	"For all we know, you're one of the baddies who's pointing the finger at the loudest target while not contributing to the debate at all." The loudest, most aggressive target who always seems to be attacking someone over some crazy thing. Sounds like something a wolf would do. vote ophiomancer Now to make a hat out of dead werewolf to enhance my fashion. Cupid coat + Werewolf hat = FABULOUS!

	Time:2009-09-23 22:37:56 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2607848	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#85	#78
	Good points. UNVOTE slownewsday. I like ophiomancer's points about Starryshadows. Could be a wolf ruse, though. VOTE ABSTAIN till 5pmish when I can makesome sort of decision.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:42:15 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2608104	Parent:#76 Siblings:(none) Children:#87 #258	#79
	I'm content with you creating a rivalry with me. I do, however, suggest a FASHION rivalry! With a walk-off to decide the winner.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:46:50 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2608360	Parent:#77 Siblings:(none) Children:#82	#80
	Heh heh heh. Hey, evilben, he thinks I'm loud and aggressive and attacking people over crazy things. This is just SO uncharacteristic of me. :D Good special, bad special, wolf or villager, I'd be doing this no matter what I was, it's just how I am. ^_^ So you really can't rely on the loud bit. Not being loud and aggressive would be like me trying to walk like a dainty flower without running into door frames. It's just not gonna happen.

	Time:2009-09-23 22:49:05 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2608616	Parent:#42 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#81
	She. :)

	Time:2009-09-23 22:52:28 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2608872	Parent:#80 Siblings:(none) Children:#83	#82
	"Well, we really only have your word on that and at the moment, your word is suspect. I have been fairly quiet, yes. I, like many others, have never lived in this village before. However, I won't be cowed into being needlessly verbose just to cast off suspicion. In fact, going after the quiet ones would be excellent for all the loud and aggressive folks, wouldn't it? My vote stands."

	Time:2009-09-23 22:59:21 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2609128	Parent:#82 Siblings:(none) Children:#88	#83
	Not going after you, bub. In fact, this is the first time I've even looked at you. You accused me, I counter-argued. This is not "going after". It's debate. And there is a difference between "needlessly verbose" and contributing to the discussion, which thus far, you really haven't. Are you afraid to give something away from talking too much so you're going the complete opposite route? Join the debate or continue to skulk about under the radar, your choice.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:01:27 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2609384	Parent:#71 Siblings:(none) Children:#86	#84
	"I'm not convinced Stride is a wolf. I am convinced that Ophiomancer is, though. You were too. Do you really believe there is a greater chance that Stride is a wolf over Ophiomancer? We must stand united if we are to send the beasts back to hell!"

	Time:2009-09-23 23:04:03 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2609640	Parent:#78 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#85
	"It most assurdely is a wolf ruse. Tricky beasts, werewolves. Do the village a favor, Ben. Kill a beast by voting for Ophiomancer."

	Time:2009-09-23 23:05:05 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2609896	Parent:#84 Siblings:(none) Children:#90	#86
	I've been voting for ophiomancer since Day 1, but few would follow me on it. I'll consider changing my vote later today if it looks like there's a chance of bringing ophiomancer down.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:05:38 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2610152	Parent:#79 Siblings:#258 Children:#89 #94	#87
	Like this?

	Time:2009-09-23 23:11:16 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2610408	Parent:#83 Siblings:(none) Children:#95 #113	#88
	"By your very words you are attempting to raise suspicion of me. Words like 'skulk' imply negativity to my actions. 'Under the radar' sets the impression I have something to hide. Framing and spin doctoring-- the tools of admen, politicians, and beasts of hell! Be clear, Ophiomancer, I see you for what you are— a werewolf! Mark my words, citizens of Millershollow! Ophiomancer is a werewolf and we should slay him!"

	Time:2009-09-23 23:14:59 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2610664	Parent:#87 Siblings:#94 Children:#121	#89
	Don't click it! stride's links contain evil!

	Time:2009-09-23 23:20:08 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2610920	Parent:#86 Siblings:(none) Children:#93	#90
	"Be the voice of reason with me, Snoopyh42! Cast your vote now so we can be assured to rid Millershollow of this terrible wolf. Waiting to see what public opinion would be resulted in the death of Baronlaw and Gorillashaman, both of whom were innocent. Stand by your initial beliefs. You didn't cast in with the mob the first two days and both times they killed an innocent. Why change now? I have confidence that more of the citizens of Millershollow will have seen Ophiomancer is a werewolf and he will be lynched."

	Time:2009-09-23 23:21:06 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2611176	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#92 #115	#91
	In the light of so much pastries, I ask the mayor, where is the pastry shop. Also who is the butcher, and the candlestick maker. I hear a song coming on....

	Time:2009-09-23 23:23:00 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2611432	Parent:#91 Siblings:#115 Children:#100	#92
	Werewolves of Miller's Hollow: The Musical

	Time:2009-09-23 23:23:19 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2611688	Parent:#90 Siblings:(none) Children:#96 #99 #129	#93
	Okay, sylvan. I'll go along with you for today. But be aware that your strong lobbying against ophiomancer may move my suspicions onto you as either being the seer or a wolf yourself. unvote stride vote ophiomancer

	Time:2009-09-23 23:26:35 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2611944	Parent:#87 Siblings:#89 Children:#97	#94
	not quite tentacles... but quite scarey all the same

	Time:2009-09-23 23:27:43 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2612200	Parent:#88 Siblings:#113 Children:#101	#95
	Beasts of hell? Slay him? Sheesh, I may be a bit over-enthusiastic about this whole thing, but that's just outright hostile. Hey, Seer person. You might want to have a look at this one. He's trying wayyyy too hard.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:28:33 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2612456	Parent:#93 Siblings:#99 #129 Children:(none)	#96
	"Thank you. I am aware there are risks with any strategy, but I do truly believe him to be a werewolf. Besides, making very few comments has aroused suspicion already, so I might as well go with my gut."

	Time:2009-09-23 23:28:58 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2612712	Parent:#94 Siblings:(none) Children:#103	#97
	Best I could find (and I can't Photoshop safely from work), but replace the Kermit dolls with plushie cthulhus and I think you'll have something that will scare pretty much everyone...

	Time:2009-09-23 23:33:16 GMT Author:sonicbunny Subject:Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2613224	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#107 #265	#98
	You sir, keep joking about skinning people and wearing their skins... I find this disturbing. And, lacking any better evidence at this point, I will go with my anti-furry bias. Also, you have a two syllable name starting with "f" and thats never good. :) vote faymar

	Time:2009-09-23 23:36:47 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2613480	Parent:#93 Siblings:#96 #129 Children:(none)	#99
	It is impossible that he's the Seer. I'm not a wolf. And Nader is gone, so there's no chance I'm being mistaken as a wolf, even by the real Seer, who's welcome to look at me too if he/she likes. hands on hips, watching this whole thing with mild disbelief Either he's on Team Bad somehow or he's going off the deep end lobbying to lynch the wrong person.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:43:49 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2613736	Parent:#92 Siblings:(none) Children:#106	#100
	Now I have werewolves of london stuck in my head.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:43:51 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2613992	Parent:#95 Siblings:(none) Children:#104 #109 #111	#101
	See? A person can't win with you--you don't like it when they don't talk, you don't like it when they do... Fickle!

	Time:2009-09-23 23:47:39 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2614248	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#102
	in the spirit of not nominating inactive players i will unvote ragnarok_now... I am entertained by this madness between sylvan and ophiomancer... one of them is most likely on the side of furry, or so it would seem so... for now vote ophiomancer... that may change but i'm off to play disc golf and drink beer and bbq so i will re-evluate later when i return in a slightly more inebriated state.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:51:40 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2615016	Parent:#97 Siblings:(none) Children:#112	#103
	Like these ones? http://www.warehouse23.com/item.html?id=SJG9403

	Time:2009-09-23 23:52:05 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2615272	Parent:#101 Siblings:#109 #111 Children:#120	#104
	"Here, here! This is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. On the off chance that Ophiomancer isn't a wolf, at least we will be rid of his catch-as-catch-can attitude about who is a wolf. He is disruptive, derisive, and just adding to the confusion. Decidedly the tactics of a werewolf, but if for some reason he isn't one of them, he is also of no value to us really as a member of town. He isn't helping to solve the situation and is just adding chaos."

	Time:2009-09-23 23:52:09 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2615528	Parent:#8 Siblings:#20 #58 #68 #75 Children:(none)	#105
	Vote ophiomancer day 3.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:52:21 GMT Author:slojae Subject:(none) Link:165096#2615784	Parent:#100 Siblings:(none) Children:#108	#106
	i guess she is evil... if not a wolf... LOL

	Time:2009-09-23 23:55:30 GMT Author:flowen Subject:Re: Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2616296	Parent:#98 Siblings:#265 Children:#110	#107
	1) I'm the one skinning the deceased and wearing them. It's a proven defensive strategy. 2) Where do you get furry out of that? You're starting to scare me.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:57:08 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2616552	Parent:#106 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#108
	I help!

	Time:2009-09-23 23:57:16 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2616808	Parent:#101 Siblings:#104 #111 Children:#119 #127	#109
	grin It's a problem. ;) Really, it's just more than a little ironic and hypocritical that he accuses me of being so aggressive in the way I've been pointing out peoples inconsistencies, and then when I bring to light the fact that he hasn't joined the debate and therefore is an unknown to the rest of us, he goes full-throttle with KILL THE BEAST! I pointed out this sort of thing with starryshadow and he counter-argued with some good points that I in turn counter-argued right back. I point out an even lesser issue with sylvan, who's been very quiet, and he instantly launches himself into a full-on "lynch ophiomancer!" campaign. Tell me that doesn't seem off to you.

	Time:2009-09-23 23:58:05 GMT Author:slojae Subject:Re: Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2617320	Parent:#107 Siblings:(none) Children:#123	#110
	i think he means fur-ry fay-mar flo-wen

	Time:2009-09-23 23:58:26 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2617576	Parent:#101 Siblings:#104 #109 Children:(none)	#111
	And actually, I do like it when they do, which is why I brought it up at all. ;)

	Time:2009-09-23 23:58:54 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2617832	Parent:#103 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#112
	No pink! Pink is too girly!!!

	Time:2009-09-24 00:11:48 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2618088	Parent:#88 Siblings:#95 Children:#114	#113
	him? Ophiomancer's a chick :)

	Time:2009-09-24 00:14:51 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2618344	Parent:#113 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#114
	Well, foo on me. I should have checked the the journal. Doesn't change a thing for me, though. Thanks for pointing out the sex confusion. :)

	Time:2009-09-24 00:17:32 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2618600	Parent:#91 Siblings:#92 Children:#118	#115
	Down a dark alley way, a dingy and run down shop stood, covered in soot and surrounded by trash. A crude mispelled sign above the door said, "Paste-rees", some of the letters written backwards. The door opened up and at first it appeared that no one walked out. Then as you scanned down, you see the top of a chef's hat, sitting on the white feathered head of a duck. "Quack!" the duck held up a plate of muffins.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:18:46 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2618856	Parent:#56 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#116
	Fair enough. Except I don't really have much to provide excuses for. You made (ahem, make) me suspicious, so I voted on you, with a secondary benefit of seeing which way you'd react to what I said. It's really quite simple. But your personality quirks (presuming you're not lying like a cunnign wolf) are good to note.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:19:48 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2619112	Parent:#55 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#117
	That icon is fantastic.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:20:03 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2619368	Parent:#115 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#118
	DON"T EAT THE MUFFINS!!

	Time:2009-09-24 00:25:49 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2619624	Parent:#109 Siblings:#127 Children:#200	#119
	"I've been voting for you since day one. Your trickery and attempts at obfuscation have been nothing but trouble since the beginning. You dared me to become vocal and I have. Of course you want people to see this as off, but it isn't. I have stood by my vote from the beginning. I have seen the popular vote kill two innocents so far. You challenge is not the only motivating factor in me speaking out. Spin, spin, spin all you want to try to make this look bad on me. People will see the truth of your evil intentions."

	Time:2009-09-24 00:28:17 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2619880	Parent:#104 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#120
	Truth be told, I think I've got to stay on this train. My suspicions are lessened, but I haven't anything better to go on. And this anti-waffle bias is a terrible, terrible blow to the culture of our poor town. The cuddlycthulhu Memorial Waffle House will need to be opened here, I think, just as soon as we get rid of the wolves. So, sorry debate partner, but I'm with sylvan, and staying the course one more time. I vote ophiomancer.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:30:42 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2620136	Parent:#89 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#121
	Shit! Too late! My Eyes!

	Time:2009-09-24 00:32:20 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2620392	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#143	#122
	Vote ophiomancer, because she seemed excessively defensive long before there was any momentum against her.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:35:18 GMT Author:flowen Subject:Re: Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2620648	Parent:#110 Siblings:(none) Children:#264	#123
	Well then I'm doomed. I hope to wear as many of you as possible before I go.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:44:18 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2620904	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#125 #126 #204 #213	#124
	Dude. Sylvan is trying WAY too hard to get Ophiomancer Lynched. I VOTE SYLVAN today. Though I doubt it matters much. History shows the bandwagons are over and done with by this time of day. If Ophiomancer dies and is a villager, I say we Lynch Sylvan next. If Ophiomancer is a wolf, I apoligize to Sylvan and follow his voting cue.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:52:28 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2621160	Parent:#124 Siblings:#126 #204 #213 Children:#128	#125
	Oh, I am very, very much not a wolf. The village would make a mistake in allowing me to die, by lynching or otherwise.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:56:13 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2621416	Parent:#124 Siblings:#125 #204 #213 Children:(none)	#126
	"Your vote is yours to do with as you please, but I am just staying the course. I said Ophiomancer was a wolf from the get go. And if by some slim chance she isn't a wolf, I still say the village is better off without her misdirection and chaos causing ways."

	Time:2009-09-24 00:57:27 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2621672	Parent:#109 Siblings:#119 Children:#130	#127
	I took it as more of a roleplaying thing--I mean, we are pretending that we live in a village with werewolves... So, no, it didn't strike me as odd. And, looking at the totals that giantlaser posted (showing individual numbers of posts), you were almost double the next highest person... Like I said, it can seem suspicious from either extreme.

	Time:2009-09-24 00:57:37 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2621928	Parent:#125 Siblings:(none) Children:#133	#128
	"Perhaps if your message was delivered with less hubris, it may have had some merit. I still say you are a foul werewolf from the depths of hell."

	Time:2009-09-24 01:00:21 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2622184	Parent:#93 Siblings:#96 #99 Children:(none)	#129
	Your vote appears to have not registered.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:07:56 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2622440	Parent:#127 Siblings:(none) Children:#131 #158	#130
	Look at it this way, then. Someone says something contradictory to someting he said earlier. You call him on it. He explains himself and says "didn't do it!" to whatever you're accusing you of. This is a pretty normal response in any situation. Someone is abnormally quiet and only surfaces to point a finger. You call him on it. HE FREAKS OUT and starts a smear campaign all over the place trying to get you killed. Now. Even in a roleplaying situation, this is pretty damn extreme.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:10:48 GMT Author:lorriet Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2622696	Parent:#130 Siblings:#158 Children:#132 #160	#131
	It's only "extreme" if you think he's trying to do this in real life. Alls fair in love and Werewolf. :)

	Time:2009-09-24 01:15:57 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2623208	Parent:#131 Siblings:#160 Children:(none)	#132
	Oh dear. Is this a lover I see?

	Time:2009-09-24 01:16:29 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2623464	Parent:#128 Siblings:(none) Children:#134	#133
	Well, then, I will deliver my message with more clarity for you. Little wolf, I am the Hunter, and if I die, I am taking you with me.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:23:38 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2623720	Parent:#133 Siblings:(none) Children:#135	#134
	"If you be the Hunter, you are bad at it. What evidence do have to offer?"

	Time:2009-09-24 01:27:44 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2623976	Parent:#134 Siblings:(none) Children:#138 #141	#135
	Unfortunately, the nature of this game is that there is no evidence. So, the evidence will have to be your corpse when I get lynched. Kinda sucks that way, doesn't it?

	Time:2009-09-24 01:29:09 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2624232	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#137 #156	#136
	SEER: Once you have 2 wolves and/or 3+ currently living villagers come out (exact numbers up to debate). At that point the bodyguard should protect you for one round, the martyr next, and then finally the bodyguard again. This gives three more scans before you are at risk from wolves. The killer is a random factor, but they don't have any reason to want you dead (in fact, the opposite).

	Time:2009-09-24 01:31:23 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2624488	Parent:#136 Siblings:#156 Children:#142	#137
	I put 3+ villagers based on the fact that as long as the killer is around and the Seer hidden there is a decent chance of accidental death.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:32:31 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2624744	Parent:#135 Siblings:#141 Children:#139	#138
	If you're the hunter, using your kill for petty revenge is, well, petty. Your motives and actions are wholly suspect at this point. Even if you are the hunter, I think we're better off without you.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:36:07 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2625000	Parent:#138 Siblings:(none) Children:#195	#139
	It's not petty revenge. He came on way too strong and I think he's one of the bad guys. If he's not, now's the time to prove it to me.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:36:07 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2625256	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#147	#140
	Once the Seer comes out you must protect the Seer in the following order: BODYGUARD MARTYR BODYGUARD Since the Martyr is a one-shot they must not protect first. Do not double-up. The Martyr can freely expose themselves the second turn, but the bodyguard should always remain hidden.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:37:30 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2625512	Parent:#135 Siblings:#138 Children:(none)	#141
	"I guess it does and if this is more than just mere blustering and misdirection, I say to you I would be a poor choice to take with you. In the end should we both be dead, it will still be mute testimony to your behavior since the beginning being bad for Millershollow."

	Time:2009-09-24 01:39:28 GMT Author:evilben Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2625768	Parent:#137 Siblings:(none) Children:#145	#142
	Holy crap! Someone in this village has a valid plan! Impressive, good sir.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:39:37 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:(none) Link:165096#2626024	Parent:#122 Siblings:(none) Children:#144 #149 #175	#143
	Ophi is claiming hunter-ship atm, FYI. vote Sylvan for noisy wolf Although honestly neither could be one.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:40:24 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:(none) Link:165096#2626280	Parent:#143 Siblings:#149 #175 Children:(none)	#144
	Ugh, I mean that neither of them has to be a wolf.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:47:16 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2626536	Parent:#142 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#145
	Well, gorillashaman is dead so someone has to come up with ~~crappy~~ useful plans.

	Time:2009-09-24 01:52:43 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:(none) Link:165096#2627048	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#146
	Because apparently I am a noob. VOTE STRIDE Did that one catch?

	Time:2009-09-24 02:02:27 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2627304	Parent:#140 Siblings:(none) Children:#152 #154 #214 #261	#147
	actually - bodyguard, witch, bodyguard, martyr, bodyguard - don't throw away the life of a townsperson needlessly! The seer needs to have at least one wolf IDed, in order to show the townfolks he/ she can PROVE that he/ she is the seer. The WOLVES could throw up a false seer and get one nights worth of misdirection, but it wouldn't gain them much, and they would loose one of their 3 members immediately after the ruse (either the false seer OR the "wolf" they sacrifice for proof). The BEST part about this plan is the bguard, the witch, and the martyr remain "hidden" - they don't have to reveal their status at all. Now if one of those specials dies, then the order of protection should change.

	Time:2009-09-24 02:10:09 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2627560	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#148
	Vote sylvan.

	Time:2009-09-24 02:26:31 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2627816	Parent:#143 Siblings:#144 #175 Children:(none)	#149
	Interesting. Ok, while no-one disputes it... Unvote ophiomancer. I abstain.

	Time:2009-09-24 02:29:03 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: My take Link:165096#2628072	Parent:#33 Siblings:(none) Children:#153	#150
	true, but I'd like to point out that everything someone says is something a wolf might say.

	Time:2009-09-24 02:34:31 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2628328	Parent:#57 Siblings:#59 #61 #62 #64 #66 Children:#155	#151
	the odds of the people being a werewolf is slim, and the odds of them being the serial killer is non existent, unless our mayor is killing for him/her. the odds of them being a special or non-special villager is even, and higher than being a "bad guy" I say we DO lynch the people that are inactive. I think it is much more likely that the wolves would like to be active, vs plain villagers, which may slightly skew those averages, anyway. Better to lynch a probable villager than lynch a probable villager, and then lose another to suicide, right?

	Time:2009-09-24 02:35:54 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2628584	Parent:#147 Siblings:#154 #214 #261 Children:(none)	#152
	I was just about to say this.

	Time:2009-09-24 02:41:33 GMT Author:evilben Subject:Re: My take Link:165096#2628840	Parent:#150 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#153
	That sounds like something a wolf would say! (sorry, had to say it)

	Time:2009-09-24 02:59:22 GMT Author:gnatdbug Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2629096	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #214 #261 Children:#164	#154
	So... if we have a night of one death or no deaths... How do we know it was a protection and not an activation of the afflicted?

	Time:2009-09-24 03:02:25 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2629352	Parent:#151 Siblings:(none) Children:#161	#155
	I disagree with your logic. It is better to have an active village, than to have ineffective chaff. I voted for Gwydion at the start of the day, and he's done nothing to lessen my suspicions, and more to grow them.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:03:15 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2629608	Parent:#136 Siblings:#137 Children:#159 #168 #216	#156
	the Serial Killer has EVERY reason to want to know who the SEER is. The only person who can REALLY out the Serial Killer is the SEER. And the SEER give NO help to the killer. The killer is required to kill EVERYONE to win. And, the longer the wolves are alive, the more people are killed. He needs the wolves to die, little by little, but he's pretty well off at this point. This leads me to believe you are a BAD character, since you seem to have been much smarter about these things in the previous games, Although I may be misremembering.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:11:56 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2629864	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#162 #166	#157
	And just so we're clear since people may not have seen my other post. I AM THE HUNTER. Y'all might not want to lynch me. Yep.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:15:59 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2630120	Parent:#130 Siblings:#131 Children:(none)	#158
	"Or maybe, just maybe, I found something in all your rantings that finally convinced me you are absolutely a wolf."

	Time:2009-09-24 03:17:57 GMT Author:evilben Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2630376	Parent:#156 Siblings:#168 #216 Children:#271	#159
	Nope. The Serial Killer would scan as "Villager" to the Seer. The results the Seer gets are "Villager," "Werewolf," or, in some variants, "Werehamster" (and the werehamster dies).

	Time:2009-09-24 03:18:01 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2630632	Parent:#131 Siblings:#132 Children:#163 #208	#160
	From an "out of character" stand point I'm totally looking at this as a role-play scenario. I harbor zero hostility towards Ophiomancer or anyone else. I'm just having fun and enjoying all the accusations and defenses and puzzling things out.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:19:29 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2630888	Parent:#155 Siblings:(none) Children:#173	#161
	Actually - inACTIVE chaff is just fine. Your statement of the ineffectiveness of non-posting townspersons is just silly ! This is a numbers game - we the townsfolk need to keep our numbers higher than the wolves, period. Now the odds of a non-poster being a werewolf or a serial killer is no lesser or greater than someone posting all the time. Just because they don't speak up HERE doesn't mean they are not using their abilities, be they a killvote, a kill, or even a good-guy special. Bottom line is that anyone not voting for two days in a row (or maybe its on the third day after non-voting - not 100% sure), will be removed from the game via GM Fiat. You can read NOTHING into a person posting or not posting. The CONTENT of their posting/ voting - that might have some relevancy.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:20:11 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2631144	Parent:#157 Siblings:#166 Children:#170	#162
	HA. You meant that to be a main post to be seen, but it got shuffled to page 2. Just laughing at the irony.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:22:16 GMT Author:evilben Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2631400	Parent:#160 Siblings:#208 Children:#165	#163
	Not always coming across that way, FYI.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:25:27 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2631656	Parent:#154 Siblings:(none) Children:#260	#164
	You DON'T - unless you were the one doing the protecting ! The Bodyguard can protect each round. The Witch and Martyr can protect once and ONLY once. The Bodyguard has been ineffective so far (not his/ her fault really, the guessing game is random at this point). The Martyr has not protected yet as they have not been revealed upon death. The Witch has not protected as we have had a wolf victim each night. NEITHER of these special is likely to use their protect until we have a strong idea WHO is important enough to protect. The BEST CASE scenerio is that we ID the seer soon, before the BGuard or Witch dies ...

	Time:2009-09-24 03:26:56 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2631912	Parent:#163 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#165
	If it isn't, I truly apologize. It was never my intent for anyone to feel attacked out of game. I'm just looking at this as a game. I promise I have a strategy and we'll see soon enough if it's a good one or not. It isn't about picking on anyone and I don't actually think anyone is really a beast of hell.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:27:24 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2632168	Parent:#157 Siblings:#162 Children:#167 #172	#166
	.... this SO makes me want to figure out a role for the WALRUS - just so everyone can argue I AM THE WALRUS !!!!

	Time:2009-09-24 03:31:02 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2632424	Parent:#166 Siblings:#172 Children:#169	#167
	Crap! Werewalrus! Get the torches!

	Time:2009-09-24 03:31:21 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2632680	Parent:#156 Siblings:#159 #216 Children:(none)	#168
	Ben got there first, but yes, the seer can't find the killer. The killer is BEST served by letting the Seer Id the wolves and let us kill them off and then picking us off as we start the next round of trying to figure out the "enemy", ESPECIALLY as there is NO ONE who can ID the killer. It's a pure process of elimination thing .... in more ways than one ;)

	Time:2009-09-24 03:33:06 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2632936	Parent:#167 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#169
	DEATH BY BUKKIT !!!

	Time:2009-09-24 03:37:51 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2633192	Parent:#162 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#170
	You suck and I hate you. hugs :)

	Time:2009-09-24 03:38:02 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2633448	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#174	#171
	OK - I have a feeling that the wolves MAY be trying to take advantage of the "Bandwagon" trend I've been seeing in the first couple rounds with FLOODs of votes htting an individual in rapid succession. I could be VERY wrong, but ... I'm going to cast my VOTE Sylvan for now simply to try to balance more cleanly between him and ophiomancer. I'm not REALY sure bout you Oph ... but I'm not ready to send you packing for the dirt nap either right now. My hope is that we might hit a tie between you two and get to boil this down further, maybe even seeing some creamy rich voting trends come to the top. In that vein, I may move my vote around tomorrow per the trends that develop between now and then.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:38:29 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2633704	Parent:#166 Siblings:#167 Children:(none)	#172
	...koo koo kachoo? o_o hides from the werewalrus!!

	Time:2009-09-24 03:43:21 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2633960	Parent:#161 Siblings:(none) Children:#272	#173
	That's correct, but because they don't post/vote, there's no information to go off of. That IS detrimental. However, a total lack of activity will result in their death. in this particular instance, I don't think we need to kill Slownewsday this round. If she comes back, that's great. If she suicides, that's fine. We can get a wolf, and I think I've got one, but I'm not any more sure than the next person.

	Time:2009-09-24 03:49:38 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2634216	Parent:#171 Siblings:(none) Children:#176 #177	#174
	please note: Ophiomancer has claimed to be the Hunter. That's to be taken as valid, unless someone else speaks up. Anyone else speaking up would be pointless, simply because the hunter can shoot the lying wolf upon their death. We don't want Ophio lynched, so let's try and avoid balance :P

	Time:2009-09-24 04:09:41 GMT Author:cambler Subject:(none) Link:165096#2634472	Parent:#143 Siblings:#144 #149 Children:(none)	#175
	vote sylvan

	Time:2009-09-24 04:10:03 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2634728	Parent:#174 Siblings:#177 Children:#178	#176
	Well, if you agree that it's a bad idea for me to be lynched, it would be a good idea for you to change your vote to sylvan so it's at least a tie.

	Time:2009-09-24 04:11:48 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2634984	Parent:#174 Siblings:#176 Children:#180	#177
	You're assuming it's a wolf that's going to speak up saying they're the hunter. Maybe it's the killer, or another villager, or THE REAL HUNTER.

	Time:2009-09-24 04:13:04 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2635240	Parent:#176 Siblings:(none) Children:#179	#178
	at the moment, I'm not sure lynching Sylvan is a good idea. My intuition is telling me that he just seems like an overzealous new player... I could be wrong, but I am more counting on people to unvote for you, than to vote for him.

	Time:2009-09-24 04:20:12 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2635496	Parent:#178 Siblings:(none) Children:#181	#179
	That's what I'm thinking too. I've come to notice a voting pattern within the new players I'm not happy with as a player, too. Voting sylvan would create a tie, throwing us into a tie-breaker, so he wouldn't die and it would keep me alive. If people retract their votes, you could always change yours, as long as it's before 11am. Up to you.

	Time:2009-09-24 04:24:56 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2635752	Parent:#177 Siblings:(none) Children:#186	#180
	yes, that's in fact true. I realized that shortly after I posted it, but figured that the slight logic flaw wasn't that important. The ONLY answer where claiming to be the hunter is valid is if you ARE the Hunter. If Ophiois not the hunter, then the real hunter should speak up, we lynch one of them, and then the other is slaughtered, one way or another. Either we get it right, and lynch the wolf, or we lynch the hunter who shoots the wolf. The serial killer has no business in this mess, nor should any villager. Anyone falsely claiming to be the Hunter, after it was already pointed out on day one that it was a bad idea, needs to try and have a better excuse next time :P

	Time:2009-09-24 04:27:26 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2636008	Parent:#179 Siblings:(none) Children:#182 #184	#181
	You realize ties are bad, right?

	Time:2009-09-24 04:29:10 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2636264	Parent:#181 Siblings:#184 Children:(none)	#182
	Getting lynched is a bad idea too. A tie breaker is better than just dying. :)

	Time:2009-09-24 04:37:46 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2636520	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#187	#183
	One of those most interesting facets of this game is that we win, or lose, as a team. There is only one person (the serial killer) who is on their own side. If the werewolves win, they all count it as a victory. if the village wins, even the dead win. Most people aspire to survive, but that isn't the ultimate goal. The goal is to let your faction win. Gorillashaman did a selfless thing, and offered himself up on day one to prevent a more important loss. Let us not let his sacrifice go to waste. Lynching a special who is uncontested is a waste of our time, especially when it's one of the two self correcting specials. Let's not waste more of our time, or effort on this, and let's get united as a group, and get votes off of the currently unopposed hunter. We can always come back later if new information comes up before the end of the day.

	Time:2009-09-24 04:48:40 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2636776	Parent:#181 Siblings:#182 Children:#185	#184
	Howso ? It just means we have a tie breaker. It's no worse than any other voting situation we create

	Time:2009-09-24 05:00:45 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2637032	Parent:#184 Siblings:(none) Children:#190 #194	#185
	During a tie breaker, the Wolves will try to manipulate a tie again. in the case of a second tie, the Wolves get 2 kills.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:02:45 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2637288	Parent:#180 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#186
	ACTUALLY - Oph might have claimed to be the hunter and ACTUALLY be a vanilla townsperson. It would even be a valid move on her part, assuming she is looking to survive. She is making sure we don't lynch a townsperson and loose numerical advantage. Even if we lynch Syl, and he is ALSO a townsperson, unless he is a lover and the OTHER lover is a townsperson -we actually LOOSE NOTHING more than we would loose anyway. If she survives the "day", she SHOULD actually admit to not being the hunter though, since the wolves might be less likely to hit her than the REAL hunter - who would probably end up killing another townsperson in pointless retaliation. we would probably feel "betrayed" but ... Oph could be a wolf, I'm not saying she isn't, just that she could be a non-hunter AND a non-wolf. "If Ophiois not the hunter, then the real hunter should speak up, we lynch one of them, and then the other is slaughtered, one way or another. Either we get it right, and lynch the wolf, or we lynch the hunter who shoots the wolf." Ummmm ... NO. If Oph is lying, and the real hunter claimed their status, the townsfolk gain nothing. WE don't know who the hunter is, we would be guessing again. As I showed above, Oph is not necessarily the wolf, so a dual kill of the new claimant AND the actual hunter would leave us down by TWO villagers ! I just want everyone to be clearhaeded on this as there is NO certainty of what you suggest.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:10:00 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2637544	Parent:#183 Siblings:(none) Children:#188 #203	#187
	..... realy ? I'm pretty sure the goal is to survive. First line of http://millershollow.livejournal.com/90566.html "Ok the entire game is about surviving." That's why gorillashaman's play confused us all so much. With the exception of the Martyr, no one here is looking to be a hero ... And how is the huntert a self-correcting special ? Unless we KNOW who the wolves are, they are LITERALLY shooting blind - as apt to kill a townsperson as a wolf, if not MORESO

	Time:2009-09-24 05:12:10 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2637800	Parent:#187 Siblings:#203 Children:#191	#188
	What I'm saying is that if someone who is not the hunter claims to be the hunter, the Hunter knows this. When he kills someone, he shoots the liar. Hence, self-correcting.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:13:39 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2638056	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#193 #211 #217 #263	#189
	You know, I really have to wonder at the credibility and reasoning for the group who's voting for me so consistently in that they don't seem to have either. I can't help but notice (now, anyway) that the people who have made noise about lynching me since day one are all of the new players cuddlycthulhu brought in. Day one. It was the beginning of game and I was being silly because no one knows who anyone is. They saw me hassling their friend and group-voted against me, each mentioning the waffle incident with cuddlycthulhu as their reason. Day two. Cuddlycthulhu bit it at the hands of the werewolves. The group votes for me again, and again, mention the waffle incident. They're not giving any reasons other than the exchange I had with cuddlycthulhu. I've moved on with the game since then, they haven't. Day three. I bring up what I think are valid arguing points with two of the people voting against me, not yet realizing their connection. They dogpile on me, one with an abruptness that either shows him as a noisy wolf or an over-zealous new player who needs to reign it back. They don't think I'm a wolf, they're just getting revenge because they think I put their friend out of the game too early. This stinks of a clique and that's not cool. I'm ok with the idea of getting lynched. With how vocal I've been, I've been expecting it. But I don't like the idea of the game being played this way. It takes all the fun out of it.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:15:43 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2638312	Parent:#185 Siblings:#194 Children:(none)	#190
	True enough, but I don't think their voting block is strong enough to make THAT big a difference right now, any moreso than the lovers ... AND if they DO try to manipulate the voting, we might be able to catch them. ... I actually have one more point to make, but I'm holding it in reserve as i don't want to tip my hand to the wolves :P

	Time:2009-09-24 05:16:22 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2638568	Parent:#188 Siblings:(none) Children:#192	#191
	Again - the liar could be a townperson trying to stay alive ...

	Time:2009-09-24 05:18:22 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2638824	Parent:#191 Siblings:(none) Children:#224	#192
	If they are, they're doing a really shitty job, and deserve what they get. Claiming falsely to be the Hunter gets you shot. Claiming to be the witch gets you poisoned. Claiming to be the Martyr, no detriment. Pick something better, next game, after your death has consumed one of the villages useful resources.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:18:33 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2639080	Parent:#189 Siblings:#211 #217 #263 Children:#196 #197	#193
	I voted for you because it added up, I only looked at who else voted after i voted.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:19:02 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:165096#2639336	Parent:#185 Siblings:#190 Children:(none)	#194
	in the case of a tie breaker the wolves argue stronger and you get more insight into who people are. only bad if the tie is not broken. actually good if it puts pressure on people and we have more behavior to study.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:21:32 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:165096#2639592	Parent:#139 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#195
	VOTE SYLVAN

	Time:2009-09-24 05:24:57 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2639848	Parent:#193 Siblings:#197 Children:#199	#196
	Don't worry, I don't think that of you. To be specific I'm talking about sylvan, flowen and starryshadow, the people brought in by cuddlycthulhu. If you look at the voting history, you'll see what I'm talking about.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:27:15 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2640104	Parent:#193 Siblings:#196 Children:(none)	#197
	You have your chance to change your vote now, since new information has come up. As the village, you DO NOT lynch the hunter, unless we have two claims to be the hunter. Since a second claim has yet to arise, why don't you change your vote, and can always change it back as new info comes out.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:27:51 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: Status Link:165096#2640360	Parent:#75 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#198
	curses, foiled again! :P (that's a joke)

	Time:2009-09-24 05:30:59 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2640616	Parent:#196 Siblings:(none) Children:#201	#199
	Sadly, your time in the game is very limited. You're either going to get lynched, or eaten or stabbed in the night. Before that happens, why don't you post up your suspicions, so that we at least know what you were thinking before you died. Also, since the newbs seem to think you might be doing something silly, take a moment to recant as hunter, if you ARE just a villager. (Which ultimately won't help, cause then you'll simply be lynched for changing your story) but at least then we could look back and see what you thought once we can see what your role was. (that was a little more convoluted than I wanted :( )

	Time:2009-09-24 05:32:49 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2640872	Parent:#119 Siblings:(none) Children:#242	#200
	I've been voting for you since day one. So what you're saying is that you've been voting for her at a time when it was actually impossible for you to have any evidence whatsoever of her being a wolf? Sounds like you don't have any good reason to vote for her, then. Not saying you're a wolf necessarily, just pointing out that you clearly have some kind of unfounded vendetta.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:34:40 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2641128	Parent:#199 Siblings:(none) Children:#202	#201
	I'm afraid their decision to vote for me has nothing to do with me claiming to be the Hunter, so recanting would be pointless if you think it will effect their decision. I might post my suspicions later. I'll see how this place looks tomorrow morning and decide then.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:40:33 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2641384	Parent:#201 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#202
	The difference recanting would make is tht the real hunter (assuming you aren't) wouldn't have to spek up that way, to prove you're a fraud. Assuming you ARE the Hunter, you get to go out in a blaze of glory regardless.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:41:28 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2641640	Parent:#187 Siblings:#188 Children:#215	#203
	I agree with DragonAttack. My take on the game has always been that one of the following groups wins: - villagers - wolves - serial killer (or werehampster or whatever) - the lovers, IF one is a baddie and the other is not It doesn't matter if you live or die, just if your group wins. To address what you've said elsewhere, a vanilla villager claiming to be the hunter is VERY unhelpful. The real hunter would probably reveal themselves (and therefore be eaten before they are most useful) and, assuming that the liar was a wolf, we'd waste a lynching on them. This puts us down two villagers, probably three as the hunter would be eaten and their kill would be essentially random this early in the game.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:43:34 GMT Author:rustymaggot Subject:(none) Link:165096#2641896	Parent:#124 Siblings:#125 #126 #213 Children:(none)	#204
	im good with lynching sylvan either way. something off about that guy.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:45:14 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2642152	Parent:#61 Siblings:#67 Children:#235	#205
	To address your point, I freely admit that I made a mistake. However, having seen Baronlaw in action before, I stand by my statement that it was at least worthy of suspicion that he was so vocal for a strategy that seems to benefit wolves over villagers. He's an experienced player and I'm very surprised to learn that he (presumably) thought the sheriff idea was a good villager strategy at this point, as that's a theory i clearly disagree with.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:53:58 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2642408	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#209 #225 #229	#206
	Now, I'm hardly an expert at this game, and I'll be the first to admit I have plenty of bad judgment calls in my history here. But for those still voting for Ophio, this is my reasoning for why that's a bad idea. Claiming to be the Hunter when you're not is suicide. Why? Because the hunter is one of the specials that can kill you without a lynch vote. As soon as you (falsely) claim to be the Hunter, the real Hunter knows you're a wolf. So when the real Hunter dies, he's going to take the liar with him. As a lying wolf, that's the BEST scenario, because it means you survive a few rounds before death. The other possibility is this. Some claims to be the Hunter and then a second person claims to be the real Hunter. We lynch the first person, and if they're a wolf, they're dead. If they're actually the real Hunter, they kill the second person who claimed to be the Hunter. Either way, a wolf is dead. The point being, lying about being the Hunter is a death sentence. (This goes double for the Witch, because they doesn't need to reveal themselves, just poison you in the night.) For this reason, most baddies wouldn't do it. At the very least they'd claim some other role. But even IF they were tricky enough to do so, it's a self-correcting situation that requires no action from anyone except the real Hunter. Lynching someone claiming to be Hunter or Witch is a waste, plain and simple. If anyone disagrees, I'm open to hearing your arguments, but I think it's a pretty self-contained situation.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:55:51 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2642664	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#207
	Also, I'm going to vote sylvan, and I suggest other people do too. Right now, voting for anyone other than Ophio seems like the smart move.

	Time:2009-09-24 05:56:33 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2642920	Parent:#160 Siblings:#163 Children:#230	#208
	I've noticed that you're being careful to put in-character conversation inside of quotes and out-of-character conversation as unadorned text.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:00:47 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2643176	Parent:#206 Siblings:#225 #229 Children:#210	#209
	When does the cereal killer decide his kill?

	Time:2009-09-24 06:04:28 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2643432	Parent:#209 Siblings:(none) Children:#212	#210
	I think it's the same time as the wolves? My understanding is that, aside from lynching, all nighttime actions take place simultaneously. So, theoretically, the serial killer could kill someone, the wolves could kill someone, the witch could kill someone, and the hunter (if someone else killed him) could kill someone. Hell, if one of the dead is a lover, you could theoretically have 5 deaths in one night.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:05:17 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2643688	Parent:#189 Siblings:#193 #217 #263 Children:(none)	#211
	For what it's worth, I, too am a friend of cuddlycthulhu and have been voting against you because: a) The waffle thing was funny b) I didn't have better evidence towards anyone else c) You weren't at the top of the lynch mob anyway

	Time:2009-09-24 06:06:05 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2643944	Parent:#210 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#212
	Plus suicides from the non votes. I think there will be one or two tonight.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:08:43 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2644200	Parent:#124 Siblings:#125 #126 #204 Children:(none)	#213
	If Ophiomancer* dies and is a villager, I say we Lynch Sylvan next. If Ophiomancer is a wolf, I apoligize to Sylvan and follow his voting cue.* This is the logic that I'm going with for today. Also with the claim (and no dispute) of ophiomancer being the Hunter. UNVOTE STRIDE VOTE SYLVAN

	Time:2009-09-24 06:16:34 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2644456	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #154 #261 Children:(none)	#214
	Good point, although the bodyguard has the option of not saving the first turn, and the witch could still save the victim (assuming it is the Seer). The advantage in doing so would only be to try and trick the wolves. Of course I might only be saying this in order to encourage the wolves to actually attack the seer (and not assume they are protected and eat another).

	Time:2009-09-24 06:26:12 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2644712	Parent:#203 Siblings:(none) Children:#218 #219 #223	#215
	Look - let's be 100% CRYSTAL clear here folks - I am simply pointing out the what some folks here are posting as GIVENS and FACTs simply aren't. Upon some deep reflection, here are my THOUGHTS (not facts, just theories). If someone claims to be the hunter, the chances are probably pretty good that they either ARE the hunter or they are a wolf. I don't think most vanilla villagers are going to "game" the system so far as to say they are a hunter simply to survive. ALSO folks tend to be driven by social attitudes, and I doubt a non-hunter is willing to suffer the scorn of the "community" once their ruse is discovered. SO - someone claims to be the hunter. The next assumption you posit is that if the person claiming to be the hunter is NOT, the real hunter will step forth and dispute the claim. I'm not sure if the hunter should DO that. OK, yes, the chances are good that the false hunter is a wolf, and the hinter can then play a zero-sum game. See - if the false claimant IS a wolf, the hunter is then DEAD, and can only HOPE to take out ONE PROBABLE wolf, the False claimant. If the false claimant IS a wolf, and the true hunter is mistakenly lynched, then they take out the false claimant - Zero sum: one wolf and one villager down (lets just put aside the fact that the false claimant COULD be a non-wolf). If the town lynches the false-claimant wolf, I'm assuming we will KNOW from their deathnote they were a wolf. So then the hunter gets protected by the same BGard - Witch - BGard - Martyr set up we suggested before. BUT that would WASTE the protection we want to give the Seer ! OR we let the hunter get eaten, and loose the effectiveness of their revenge (since the hunter SHOULD NOT revenge on a guess !). So again, unless we want to waste our Seer protection program, at most we give the Hunter one night of protection with the BGard, then ... crunch. The alternative ? The hunter stays hidden and bides. SO - tell me, is it better to take out a probable wolf at the cost of a villagers life ?

	Time:2009-09-24 06:31:05 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject::P Link:165096#2644968	Parent:#156 Siblings:#159 #168 Children:(none)	#216
	Don't worry, we can lynch you anytime Killer, if the wolves don't eat you first (hint, hint).

	Time:2009-09-24 06:31:35 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2645224	Parent:#189 Siblings:#193 #211 #263 Children:(none)	#217
	Wow, it really sounds like you are taking all of this very personally. I have to say, connection or not, I kind of resent the implication that we are just jumping on you because of our friend. It has nothing to do with cliques. In the real world, I've no idea who Flowen or Snoopyh42 are. I've only spent a handful of time starryshadows. I agree this has turned quickly from being fun. I have my reasons for why I've voted why I did. Once this is over, I may reveal it. Honestly, this isn't personal, but I can't help feeling that this post is a tactic to shake the vote off your back, which to me seems like it is not how the game should be played, but I guess all is fair in love and war. I don't know you from Eve. There is no conspiracy. None of us friends of CuddlyCthulhu having making plans in secret. I'm sorry if you are feeling picked on, but it's a game where people are voted out. I'm just playing a game. Nothing I've said is about you as a person- it's about a fictional you in a fictional town filled with fictional werewolves. Yeah, totally not fun now. :(

	Time:2009-09-24 06:31:40 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2645480	Parent:#215 Siblings:#219 #223 Children:#220	#218
	See my post here for more detailed thoughts on the matter: http://millershollow.livejournal.com/165096.html?thread=2642408#t2642408 Really, it's the Hunter's call. Yes, coming out early sacrifices the life of the Hunter. However, the Bodyguard can protect them for a night, and if the Hunter thinks they have a good suspect for a wolf, it may be worth it. The problem with staying hidden is that people trust a special and give more weight to what they say. For example, if I were to come out as the Cupid (which obviously I'm not), and no one challenges me, I must not be a wolf. Therefore, while my guesses and reasoning may be incorrect, you at least would know I'm sincere in my desire to kill the wolves - as opposed to everyone else, because you can't trust a single one of them. So having a wolf hiding as a hunter, even just for a day or two, can cause problems. They'll have far more influence over our votes than we'd like a wolf to have. But really, like I said, it's the Hunter's call.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:33:53 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2645736	Parent:#215 Siblings:#218 #223 Children:(none)	#219
	BTW - that's an honest request for opinions, not rhetorical

	Time:2009-09-24 06:37:20 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2645992	Parent:#218 Siblings:(none) Children:#222	#220
	Yeah - I can see that, but my issue is that it's based on SOCIAL FEELINGS - not logic or data. I may be over analyzing - but that's all Ive got to work with - I don't know the trends like some of the vet players, and I'm not sure I'd trust them even if I did.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:38:49 GMT Author:ragnarok_now Subject:(none) Link:165096#2646248	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#226 #236	#221
	Yo Joe: Would it be possible to get an offical headcount of non-posters? Is anyone going to jump off a bridge any time soon?

	Time:2009-09-24 06:39:02 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2646504	Parent:#220 Siblings:(none) Children:#228	#222
	Wait, what is based on social feelings now?

	Time:2009-09-24 06:39:07 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2646760	Parent:#215 Siblings:#218 #219 Children:(none)	#223
	Also, based on purely a numbers game... yes, a villager is worth the trade for a wolf. There are 4 of them, and more of us. With each kill we get (now we're at 3) the thought process behind the choice of the kill becomes a little clearer, since it belongs to less people. Adittionally, the wolves tend to get a backed into a corner feeling, with fewer wolves, and the seer becomes all the more important then, because their responsability is to find a smaller number of people. For instance, if our seer currently had one wolf, I would say that it might be worth revealing them. I don't think it'll be necessary, but it might be a good idea, considering how much cover we can give an "outed" seer. But having confirmed villagers (note, the serial killer blends in among them) allows us to trash the werewolf threat, and then turn to face the killer.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:39:46 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2647016	Parent:#192 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#224
	I can see what you are saying - but this is all based on convention, not logic. Not saying that it's not the best way to go, after all, the prisoner's dilemma IS beatable if folks stick to their pre-decided plan, but most often it falls apart ...

	Time:2009-09-24 06:44:48 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2647272	Parent:#206 Siblings:#209 #229 Children:#227	#225
	Yes, but what if the person claiming to be the Hunter isn't a wolf? Also, I do follow your logic, but I don't think that everyone may come to that same conclusion. I'll admit, this is the first time I've played this game in a non-live setting. Maybe I'm making mistakes. Hell, I didn't even know we could reveal what we are. Ophiomancer's claim to be the Hunter came as quite a surprise, but I'm still not convinced it isn't just a ploy to save her neck. I can also see where a Hunter would not want to reveal themselves just to expose themselves, either.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:47:16 GMT Author:smurfetts_lamb Subject:(none) Link:165096#2647528	Parent:#221 Siblings:#236 Children:(none)	#226
	http://cuddlepuddle.org/~adam/lj_games/millershollow/ look through each day. you can count who voted.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:49:48 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2647784	Parent:#225 Siblings:(none) Children:#232	#227
	Yes, but what if the person claiming to be the Hunter isn't a wolf? Then they are sabotaging the entire village. The thing to remember is you do not win by staying alive, you win if your side wins. If a villager claims a role they don't actually possess, it only leads to confusion and unnecessary deaths. This is a team game, and we have to think accordingly.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:50:16 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2648040	Parent:#222 Siblings:(none) Children:#233	#228
	"people trust a special and give more weight to what they say" - my whole point is that its entirely possible, though I'm not certain how PROBABLE, that a wolf might claim to be a special and go unchallenged, so that trust, as you have stated previously, can be very damaging. OK - here's a thought. ALL of the GOOD Specials COULD come out and claim their status right now. If true villagers don't lie (and why would they at this point), then only the 3 wolves and the serial killer would have any motivation to counter said claims. 4 functional specials on both the evil and good sides. We could then begin playing an elimination game ... as there would be 16 non-declareds vs the 8 declareds .... I'll have to crunch some numbers ...

	Time:2009-09-24 06:56:32 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2648296	Parent:#206 Siblings:#209 #225 Children:#231 #237	#229
	There is one BIG hole in the argument here - the assumption that anyone claiming to be a Hunter FALSELY is a wolf. I know you have defending this assumption by showing a strong tradition for non-wolves NOT to claim to be the hunter both out of fear of reprisal from the real hunter (not necessarily the wisest action on the hunter's part), and by the logic that if one's TEAM wins then YOU win (not necessarily the mindset of all the players here). SO - I think that you MAY be correct, but not necessarily so.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:58:19 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2648552	Parent:#208 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#230
	Yep, that is true. There is some descriptive text early that was not in quotes, but as the game appears to be a lot less role-play than I originally envisioned, I've dropped the flavor text. If I play again, I will keep the rp out of it altogether.

	Time:2009-09-24 06:59:13 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2648808	Parent:#229 Siblings:#237 Children:(none)	#231
	This. I agree, 100%.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:01:26 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2649064	Parent:#227 Siblings:(none) Children:#234	#232
	See below. I think in any given game there could be players who are playing to survive before playing to have a team win.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:02:55 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: On the nature of this game: Link:165096#2649320	Parent:#228 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#233
	it seems like that is suggested every game and we always decide against it... i could be wrong though, it's been a few years. Really, the Seer comes out when they've found enough wolves (unless they're in danger of lynching). One game I was the Seer and I came out on Day 3, because I'd already found 2 of the 3 wolves. I think that's the earliest a seer ever voluntarily came out though, and that was just luck. It was a very boring game.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:06:48 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2649576	Parent:#232 Siblings:(none) Children:#241	#234
	My hope, then, is that such a person would read these threads, realize how much such an attempt would damage the villagers, and give it up. It's not impossible for someone to deliberately sabotage their own team, but I think it's unlikely. Regardless, it's a moot point. Do you really think the best course of action is to lynch someone claiming to be a special on the chance that they're a villager lying to save themselves?

	Time:2009-09-24 07:07:01 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2649832	Parent:#205 Siblings:(none) Children:#238	#235
	Right, but others disagreed with that notion. Does that make everyone who voted for the sheriff a suspected wolf? I think the biggest issue here is many folks are approaching this as if there is only one correct answer or action. I say there are many ways we could achieve our goals and maybe some are sounder than others, but that fact that people are coming across with ideas as if they are solid, hard facts when they aren't, if a bit daunting, if not frustrating. It's a game and we all hope our team wins, but it's hard to agree on how to achieve that when you don't know who your team is.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:07:02 GMT Author:millershollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2650088	Parent:#221 Siblings:#226 Children:(none)	#236
	slownewsday is the only non poster. She missed yesterday and is about to miss today. Her character will commit suicide tonight if she does not post.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:10:09 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2650344	Parent:#229 Siblings:#231 Children:#239	#237
	As I said to sylvan, even if a villager was claiming to be a special to save themselves, what would you have us do? Should we lynch everyone who claims to be a special, just in case? If someone is lying about being a special, even if the real special chose to stay hidden, it would only be a matter of time before they were revealed as a liar. As soon as the real special revealed themselves or was killed, we'd know the truth and lynch the liar. So... what are you recommending we do? We either lynch Ophio, or we don't.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:13:18 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2650600	Parent:#235 Siblings:(none) Children:#244	#238
	Baronlaw was not only very experienced, but seemed to be the biggest supporter of the idea. This made him far more suspicious than anyone else. Now, yesterday I was a bit suspicious of the others who voted for a sheriff, but upon seeing that he was a villager I'm no longer sure. But to answer your question - everyone but me is a suspected wolf/serial killer. I think that's a healthy mindset for every villager.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:15:10 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2650856	Parent:#237 Siblings:(none) Children:#240	#239
	I can't speak for Sylvan, but my point was simply not to assume that an uncontested declaration of special status does not cement that status as unassailable. I'm certainly not suggesting that we lynch those who declare themselves to be of a certain status (and i don't think he is either) :)

	Time:2009-09-24 07:17:52 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2651112	Parent:#239 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#240
	Fair enough, I just think we're splitting hairs. You are correct that we shouldn't treat an uncontested claim as unassailable, but at the same time, we shouldn't waste our efforts debating whether or not to lynch them either - until other evidence puts their claim in doubt, that is.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:18:16 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2651368	Parent:#234 Siblings:(none) Children:#245	#241
	OK, step back a sec - your arguments are very good - up till the point you start making a straw man argument - he's NOT suggesting "the best course of action is to lynch someone claiming to be a special on the chance that they're a villager lying to save themselves" - isn't even implying it. Don't go off that edge man - I need you to keep my own ideas on track :)

	Time:2009-09-24 07:18:18 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2651624	Parent:#200 Siblings:(none) Children:#243	#242
	I don't think anyone had a good reason to vote for anyone early on. The vote for Gorillashaman hurt us villagers and so did Baronlaw. Over the next two days, her actions have indicated to me that she is trying to create chaos and division between us. I can also see where people would think that of me. I don't have a vendetta. I think she's a wolf. If I'm wrong, well, I'm a newb and even experianced players can make errors. If I'm right, then I'm likely to be killed by the wolves. I think my biggest mistake was approaching this from any stand point of role-playing. It was all fun and games when it was waffles and toppings, but the minute I brought out accusations of beasts of hell, I as a player had my credibility questioned and was accused of coming off as attacking people and forming up some clique. I was playing the role of someone trapped in a village filled with hidden werewolves. Clearly, that isn't what the game is about. It's more of a logic/sociological puzzle. Hell, for all I know the accusations are just part of the game, too. shrug You live and learn.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:22:31 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2651880	Parent:#242 Siblings:(none) Children:#246	#243
	I don't think the roleplaying was a problem, really - or at least, not one that couldn't be easily cleared up. I caught on to the roleplaying without any difficulty myself. And yes, I'd say accusations tend to be part of the game in general. I think the bigger issue, for me at least, is that you have voted for Ophio for the last 3 days straight. Even now, when there is at least the possibility that she is the Hunter, you haven't changed your mind. I'm curious as to what exactly you consider to be "creating chaos and division".

	Time:2009-09-24 07:24:19 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2652136	Parent:#238 Siblings:(none) Children:#247	#244
	Yep, I guess that is a pretty smart way to go. I mean, unless of course you know different. At this point I think either way this goes down, my plan will fail. Again, you live and learn.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:24:51 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2652392	Parent:#241 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#245
	It's not meant to be a straw man, it's a sincere question. He is still voting for Ophio and seems to be creating scenarios in which she could be lying. As I said, I view it to be a moot point, and I'm not sure why we're still discussing it. Maybe you guys are talking about it much more theoretically than I am, but I just think our efforts are more valuable elsewhere at the moment.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:34:42 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2652648	Parent:#243 Siblings:(none) Children:#249	#246
	Accusing people over wierdness such as sardines, calling me out for being quiet, then for being loud. Suggesting someone who sided with me makes us the Lovers. Me changing my vote now will only let her escape if she's a wolf. Besides, she's no longer a threat, I'm the one who's going to be lynched and the only way I can think to save myself at this point would not benefit my team. Well, it's not likely to, at any rate. I think there is a greater chance of her being a wolf than her being a hunter. I also believe there is a greater chance of me being a special than of me being wolf. There are risks either way. I just hope if I am lynched, she really is the hunter.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:34:48 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2652904	Parent:#244 Siblings:(none) Children:#248 #257	#247
	My first game, in the very last round, it was me and three other people. One was a wolf, and I was the sheriff, and therefore the deciding vote. I picked the wrong person, and we lost. The worst part is, the guy I lynched had figured out who the wolf was and explained it perfectly, but I didn't believe him.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:35:56 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2653160	Parent:#247 Siblings:#257 Children:#250	#248
	I guess we'll see how things go tomorrow.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:36:04 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2653416	Parent:#246 Siblings:(none) Children:#251	#249
	I think the sardines thing was a joke. There are a lot of jokes like that, the first day or two especially. If you're a special, you should probably reveal yourself before we lynch you. Otherwise, looks like you're done for.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:38:17 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2653672	Parent:#248 Siblings:(none) Children:#253	#250
	You probably can't do any worse than single-handedly throw the game to the wolves :P

	Time:2009-09-24 07:39:07 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2653928	Parent:#249 Siblings:(none) Children:#252	#251
	Sure, but if I do reveal myself, then the wolves will just get me, right? I can't count on people believing me at this point and protecting me. Either I'm killed by my own people or the wolves get me. So it's a no win situation.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:40:46 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2654184	Parent:#251 Siblings:(none) Children:#254	#252
	Well, if you're a special, the wolves may not eat you. First of all, if they don't eat you, we may assume you're lying and lynch you the next day. Secondly, if they do eat you, the bodyguard might be protecting you. Lastly, even if they do manage to kill you, at least we won't have wasted a lynch on a villager.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:40:59 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2654440	Parent:#250 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#253
	True.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:42:16 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2654696	Parent:#252 Siblings:(none) Children:#255	#254
	I think I'll sleep on it.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:43:09 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2654952	Parent:#254 Siblings:(none) Children:#256	#255
	Be careful, people need time to change their votes.

	Time:2009-09-24 07:52:01 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2655208	Parent:#255 Siblings:(none) Children:#266	#256
	I'm not convinced it will change anything. 1. The hunter may be seen as more important. 2. It could just be seen as me trying Ophiomancer's tactic back at her. 3. People may already think I'm a big meanie or that I'm part of a clique that's ganged up on her. 4. I'm not convinced that reavealing who I am won't cause more havoc for the villagers. Like I said, I'll sleep on it and hope for the best.

	Time:2009-09-24 09:54:22 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2655464	Parent:#247 Siblings:#248 Children:#268	#257
	Would you happen to have a link to that game? I love post-game voyeurism.

	Time:2009-09-24 09:58:52 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:165096#2655720	Parent:#79 Siblings:#87 Children:(none)	#258
	If someone wolf-whistles, do we immediately break off the competition and go after them?

	Time:2009-09-24 09:59:49 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Man, a lot of stuff happens while I'm sleeping Link:165096#2655976	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#259
	... so I'm playing catch-up this morning (I'm in London, 8 hours ahead of California). First, I forgot all about player suicide. So unvote slownewsday. Second, Ophiomancer's hunter claim is uncontested, so there's no point in joining that dogpile. Third, sylvan's behaviour matches two profiles: a novice to the game, and an inexperienced noisy wolf (he's very noisy). QED, the most likely culprit. vote sylvan

	Time:2009-09-24 10:06:47 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2656232	Parent:#164 Siblings:(none) Children:#262	#260
	If the SEER outs himself, and the BODYGUARD protects him, is he protected from both the WOLVES and the SERIAL KILLER?

	Time:2009-09-24 10:10:58 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2656488	Parent:#147 Siblings:#152 #154 #214 Children:(none)	#261
	That plan will only work if the SERIAL KILLER doesn't try to kill the SEER. See the clarifications. The BODYGUARD and MARTYR save against both WOLVES and the SERIAL KILLER, but the WITCH saves only against the WOLVES.

	Time:2009-09-24 10:12:34 GMT Author:giantlaser Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Bodyguard and Martyr Link:165096#2656744	Parent:#260 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#262
	Nevermind. The clarifications before day 1 settled that. The BODYGUARD and MARTYR protect against both WOLF and SERIAL KILLER, including at the same time. But the WITCH protects against the WOLVES only!

	Time:2009-09-24 10:22:47 GMT Author:faymar Subject:(none) Link:165096#2657000	Parent:#189 Siblings:#193 #211 #217 Children:(none)	#263
	I have to say, I disagree with your logic. 1) There are new players in the game, a number of which were brought in by cuddlycthulhu, who promoted the game heavily. 2) There was a (very amusing) RP exchange on the first day in which accusations of wolfiness were raised against you and cuddlycthulhu. 3) cuddlycthulhu was killed and revealed to be a villager, thus the accusations against him were unfounded 4) new players by definition are unsure how to vote at the start and looking for obvious answers It seems obvious to me, to be honest, that you will be a major target for new players. That's not a conspiracy, that's playing the game.

	Time:2009-09-24 10:24:48 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2657256	Parent:#123 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#264
	shiver How do you feel about Lucky Charms?

	Time:2009-09-24 10:25:59 GMT Author:faymar Subject:Re: Regarding Faymar Link:165096#2657512	Parent:#98 Siblings:#107 Children:(none)	#265
	But but but it wasn't meeeeee!

	Time:2009-09-24 10:27:49 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2657768	Parent:#256 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#266
	I have a really bad feeling about this...

	Time:2009-09-24 10:55:54 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2658024	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#269	#267
	A few people have called me out as a noisy wolf. I put forth these players could easily be the other wolves rallying to defend their pack mate, Ophiomancer. How noisy have I really been? I've made 2 more posts than her this day, much of that actually discussing where I may have gone wrong in strategy or apologizing for possibly upsetting a player. Yes, some of those posts were accusations. Isn't that the point of the game? On day two I made 2 posts and she made 24. On day 1, she made 18 posts and I made three. So, this shows she is far noisier than I am and that she lied or was stricken with the need for hyperbole when she made the claim I have an average of 1 post a day and that's just to vote. I will also state, that if I die it is very likely to be poor for us villagers. I only hope that if I die (which seems likely looking out at this angry mob) that Ophiomancer is truly the Hunter. Somehow. Am I 100% certain she's a wolf and not the Hunter? No, but I am pretty darn sure. She goaded me into flaring up my participation and my accusations. Perhaps it was a foolish, newbie mistake to respond, but isn't that just what a wolf would be hoping for? I think that perhaps she laid a very good trap and I blundered right into it. Good on her, but that would be good for wolves, wouldn't it? I hope that some of you will see that it is unlikely that I am a werewolf. I hope that you will understand my reasons for not revealing what else I am right now. I honestly think the risk to the village is greater if I do. I hope some of you will change your vote. If not to Ophiomancer because you think the risk is too high that she may indeed be the Hunter, then to someone else. My death will be a loss to the village of Millershallow. Good luck to you all. Well, the villagers at least.

	Time:2009-09-24 13:42:15 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:Re: okay, just cause i&amp;#39;ve been the victim before... Link:165096#2658280	Parent:#257 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#268
	Not off the top of my head, no. But I remember the last time I looked back on it, it was just terrible to see how badly I'd done.

	Time:2009-09-24 13:54:40 GMT Author:hungryandhollow Subject:(none) Link:165096#2658536	Parent:#267 Siblings:(none) Children:#270 #275	#269
	I will also state, that if I die it is very likely to be poor for us villagers. Yea... if this is true, then tell us why. If you're not willing to tell us why - for example, by revealing that you're a special - than I'm not really buying it. And, you know, to say you only make one post a day when you made 2 and then 3 is not much of an exaggeration. I hardly think that makes her a liar. I hope that you will understand my reasons for not revealing what else I am right now. I honestly think the risk to the village is greater if I do. Again, not really buying it. If you don't reveal, you die today. If you do reveal, you might live. So, you know, I don't really see how the risk is greater.

	Time:2009-09-24 15:27:36 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2659816	Parent:#269 Siblings:#275 Children:#274	#270
	Yeah, I agree with H&H. Having to "sleep on it" and the village being at greater risk if you do is NOT a smart ploy. If Sylvan were a special, the best time to reveal himself would've been last night when the tide of votes turned. any time now wouldn't insure the tide of votes could be sent after another. If he turned out to be the Seer or Witch, we would have to find someone new to vote for. We couldn't, in that case, vote or either him or Ophiomancer, because it just wouldn't do for our hunter to blast our seer. Sylvan's "wait till the last minute" gambit doesn't give any of us time to discuss and change the votes.

	Time:2009-09-24 15:38:15 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: IMPORTANT: Seer Link:165096#2660328	Parent:#159 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#271
	I was unaware. That does change things. Thanks

	Time:2009-09-24 15:41:19 GMT Author:gwydion82 Subject:Re: okay, just cause i've been the victim before... Link:165096#2660840	Parent:#173 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#272
	I just don't want us to lose 2 villagers, because we lynch someone active and someone inactive suicides. It tends to speed up the game.

	Time:2009-09-24 15:47:52 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2661096	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#273
	My reasons for voting for Ophiomancer: 1) I don't have any evidence of anyone else being a wolf. 2) She's loud and rude (in my opinion). 3) It's a game. I'll vote how I choose. If you don't like the way I vote or play, lynch/eat/cap'ncrunch/shoot/poison me.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:08:45 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2662888	Parent:#270 Siblings:(none) Children:#276	#274
	Then so be it. I still don't believe that Ophiomancer is the Hunter. And why should I believe you? As cliques go, you know her so of course you'll be inclined to help her out. That's the logic used here already, yes? That since my real life friend got nixed I must be after her? Also, I posted that before sleeping and the hours between the post where I said I would sleep on it and when I did post, there was no activitity that I saw. There still isn't much, so it was likely too late at that point I said I would sleep on it. My fate is pretty sealed and I'm okay with it. I'll be pleased as punch if I'm wrong, she is the Hunter and the villagers win. That's a victory for me, even if I'm dead.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:22:23 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2665192	Parent:#269 Siblings:#270 Children:#277	#275
	Yes, I might live, but I doubt it. I'm pretty sure I'll be killed by the wolves if you lot don't and I'm not convinced that even knowing the vote will change. And I don't really need you to buy it, just enough others, right? Then again, you pretty much lead the crusade against Baronlaw and that lost us a villager. You had your reasons, but perhaps you're just being sneaky. After all, everyone's a wolf/serial killer, no? Maybe Baronlaw's sheriff plan wasn't so crazy. Maybe you, as a wolf, just convinced a lot of people it was? If you were a wolf it would be in your best interest to get me to reveal what I am that way you could decide between killing me or the Hunter. It would also be in your best interest to protect Ophiomancer is she was a wolf, too.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:27:45 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2665704	Parent:#274 Siblings:(none) Children:#278	#276
	Wow, you totally missed the point of what I was saying. Nevermind then, the point is moot. And as far as "cliques" go, I have said nothing about them. Re-read my post, it was all a discussion of tactics, and my belief that your delaying was a tactical failing. If you're something important like the Seer or witch, and you elected not to reveal last night (this morning would be too late), then you've screwed the village. And as far as Ophiomancer's being or not being the hunter, she's unchallenged. It's best not lynching an unchallenged special. So if you were a special, the best time to reveal would've been right after the votes tipped against you. We could've found someone to vote for that was neither you OR Ophiomancer.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:32:48 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2666216	Parent:#275 Siblings:(none) Children:#279	#277
	For the record, it was, in fact, my Sheriff plan, Baronlaw just seconded it. He also had the opportunity to talk it up while I was shoveling out the mayor's stables (irl working).

	Time:2009-09-24 16:40:16 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2666728	Parent:#276 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#278
	I never said I was the Seer or the Witch. I get what people are saying about the unchallanged bit, but I'm not sure I buy the logic that if she wasn't the Hunter, the real Hunter would bust her publicly. My point, was at the point in the night were even began considering if revealing my status was a good idea or not, it was probably too late, so if my status screws the village it was more about me being green than anything else. I get that you were calling my delaying tactic poor. I wasn't really using it as a delaying tactic. I was just being honest.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:41:33 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2666984	Parent:#277 Siblings:(none) Children:#280	#279
	Fair enough, but he did die for supporting it.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:47:37 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2668264	Parent:#279 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#280
	True. I felt bad about that.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:56:47 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2669288	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#283 #284 #308	#281
	Aw, hell. Okay, I'm now stuck in a situation here where things are going to get very bad, very quickly. It may be too late to salvage it, but I'm gonna give it a shot and hope enough people can change their votes in time to make a difference, at least for ONE night, as that's all that we're going to get. First, let me address a thing. Ophiomancer's accusations against the few people that Cuddlycthulhu brought in, me included. I really can see how it would appear that way, especially in a game predicated upon seizing on trends of behavior and exposing people as hostile based on them. But I give you my word (the only coin of any worth in this game) that it's not so. Cthulhu is a good friend of mine, but I began my voting for Ophio early on on a lark, a silly RP-based bit of fun, and have since continued because she's being loud and aggressive. This is exactly the sort of behavior I would expect in someone who is - by their own admission - blunt and aggressive, who is being caught in a lie and trying to redirect aggression elsewhere. That's the entirety of my reasoning; that and not having anything better to go on. I'll note that the threads which have been seized on so far haven't borne fruit. So now I'll come to the real crux of this, the thing there's no reason for me to do if I'm not on the chopping block... which I am. SYLVAN AND I ARE THE LOVERS. Lynch him, and you lose two villagers, and without even making the wolves go to the effort of singling one of us out. Change your votes. I'll change mine; the logic behind the reveal of the Hunter is too sound for me. But don't throw away innocents; at least make the wolves kill us first, or you're doing their job for them. unvote ophiomancer And because I'm forced into it, because I literally have no better option, I'll vote abstain.

	Time:2009-09-24 16:58:20 GMT Author:starryshadows Subject:(none) Link:165096#2669544	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#289	#282
	Sorry for the reveal if you didn't think it good, Syl. But better the wolves take us than our the villagers. At least this way there won't be three, four, or even five dead in the morning.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:10:13 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2670568	Parent:#281 Siblings:#284 #308 Children:#285	#283
	Oho! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. So now, assuming everyone is telling the truth, if Ophio gets lynched she's going to shoot Sylvan which will cause Starryshadows to suicide. Assuming the wolves and the killer each take a villager, we'd be hosed. Completely hosed. Good times.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:10:17 GMT Author:evilben Subject:(none) Link:165096#2670824	Parent:#281 Siblings:#283 #308 Children:#286	#284
	Shit, are you kidding? UNVOTE SYLVAN, VOTE GWYDION82 Why Gwydion82? A hunch, and someone who has a vote that's not an uncontested special.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:21:15 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2671848	Parent:#283 Siblings:(none) Children:#293	#285
	Wow. Just.... wow. Your doomsaying is totally uncalled for, and detrimental to the entire village, since you are basically trying to create an immediacy that simply isn't present. If we lose the Lovers, we're no worse off that we were before, unless one of them is a special. It SOUNDS like that's not the case, and honestly, I'm MORE inclined to vote for them, because they are a liability later in the game. The fact that they MAY have a hidden agenda is detrimental to the village, even if they ultimately do not. We have no way of knowing within a reasonable period of time whether or not they are worth letting live, and unfortunately, it would be a waste of our seer's time to check. The two kills is likely to great a temptation for one of the groups with a kill, and there's not much we can do about it. The biggest thing that it is important to remember about the Lovers is that it is a role that is not given by the Mayor, but one that Cupid decided upon. It is not mutually exclusive with other roles. Werewolves can be lovers. Cupid may have done us a favor, or may have killed two innocent villagers. Whichever case, I think it is proverbially "too late now", whether you tell us we're hosed or not...

	Time:2009-09-24 17:22:27 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2672104	Parent:#284 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#286
	Finally someone listens to me :P

	Time:2009-09-24 17:22:50 GMT Author:flipperchaz Subject:(none) Link:165096#2672360	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #288 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#287
	Well, I think we're in for an interesting night. Probably won't help at this point, but following evilben's lead, I'll Vote gwydion82.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:28:16 GMT Author:snoopyh42 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2672616	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #290 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:(none)	#288
	By my reasoning, flawed as it may be, I'm torn between sylvan and ophiomancer. ophiomancer, claiming to be the Hunter, has sworn to kill sylvan if he is lynched. Since the Hunter is a special that can only be used when killed, I choose to make the vote most likely to kill them both. unvote sylvan vote ophiomancer

	Time:2009-09-24 17:28:38 GMT Author:sylvan Subject:(none) Link:165096#2672872	Parent:#282 Siblings:(none) Children:#311	#289
	No, I'm fine with it. I just think it was even too late last night. My biggest worry was that it was pointless as it wouldn't been see as enough of reason to spare us.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:29:17 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2673128	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #291 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#294	#290
	Hmmm - well, as stated previously, the reveal might be too little too late. I'm not sur ethat the reveal is anything but a smokescreen, but it's unlikely a last minute all or nothing hail Mary play. Starry will of course be toast next round regardless of whether Starry is a lover or not, as it looks like sylvan is going to the dirt nap (if starry DOESNT die, then the next lynch goes that way for the deceptive ploy, no ?) So - it might not matter but unvote sylvan vote abstain

	Time:2009-09-24 17:35:23 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2673384	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #292 #295 #304 #321 Children:#312	#291
	It would be nice to neither lynch the Hunter, nor the Lovers. The killers will take care of those for us. Please, change your votes. You've got less than a half hour now... Sylvan, Starry, both your votes can matter. Not to mention the whole mess still piled on Sylvan. H&H, Rusty, Ragnarok, Cambler, GiantLaser, ,you all know better, assuming you're actually checking in :P

	Time:2009-09-24 17:35:53 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2673896	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #295 #304 #321 Children:#296 #297 #313	#292
	In case I get eaten by wolves or done in by the serial killer, I'm going to out a theory that I stumbled upon last night. Know that I made sure I wasn't breaking any rules before writing this. I looked at cuddlycthulhu's LJ when I was researching last night's issue and found him (and his apparent talking corpse) lamenting his death on the first night by the hands of the wolves. He went on to state that one of the people on his friends list was in big trouble, and to not post anything lest they out themselves. It is not that big a leap to say that one of the people in the game who are on his friends list is a wolf. The list: sylvan flowen starryshadows faymar stride snoopyh42 (If there's anyone missing from this list, please say whom.) Assuming the person heeded his request and said nothing, the only person who didn't make some comment was stride. However, that is not unusual of her, since she normally tends to be pretty quiet on that front. So, it may be one of the others. I'm wondering if it's faymar or flowen, given that neither of them said it was sad to see him go like the others did. Faymar said it was a spectacular way to go, possibly showing pride in his work, and flowen said he is wearing cuddlycthulhu as a coat. I only have suspicions at this point, but it has to be one of the people on that list. Have fun picking this apart.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:37:27 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2674152	Parent:#285 Siblings:(none) Children:#298	#293
	So you're trying to say it's a good thing if we lose 5 villagers? That makes no sense. Wouldn't the best bet be leaving the three of them alone until we figure more stuff out? Your "Let's kill them all and see how the chips fall" idea is pretty extremist, and smells kind of wolf/killery to me.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:39:33 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2674664	Parent:#290 Siblings:(none) Children:#302	#294
	Absetentions aren't going to help. I've NO idea if Gwydion is a wolf, but abstaining merely makes tradgedy all the more likely to happen. Lynching either of those two options is work we the village doesn't want to have to do. Pick ANYONE, but it's better than nobody.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:40:39 GMT Author:stride Subject:(none) Link:165096#2675176	Parent:(none) Siblings:#1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #14 #15 #19 #21 #37 #38 #52 #57 #74 #78 #91 #98 #102 #122 #124 #136 #140 #146 #148 #157 #171 #183 #189 #206 #207 #221 #259 #267 #273 #281 #282 #287 #288 #290 #291 #292 #304 #321 Children:#300	#295
	I vote abstain since I have no time to read through the messages today. On another note I will be out of town starting tonight with little to no access to the internet tomorrow (Friday). Please take my silence as inconvenient timing; I will try to post when I can from my iPhone.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:41:03 GMT Author:flowen Subject:(none) Link:165096#2675432	Parent:#292 Siblings:#297 #313 Children:#305 #309	#296
	So it's okay to read other people's LJs and post what they say there? If I was to find a way to hack into the nighttime votes it would be cool for me to post that? Also, if you knew me at all you'd know I don't mourn the death of anyone, let alone someone in a game. Your fearmongering and defensive accusations still point towards someone who needs a lynching. My vote for you stands.

	Time:2009-09-24 17:43:03 GMT Author:logophylia1 Subject:(none) Link:165096#2675688	Parent:#292 Siblings:#296 #313 Children:#299 #301	#297
	ugh ... this kinda borders on cheating ... we arent supoosed to use outside resources in the game, right ?

	Time:2009-09-24 17:43:13 GMT Author:dragonattack Subject:(none) Link:165096#2675944	Parent:#293 Siblings:(none) Children:(none)	#298
	That's not what I'm saying. i'm saying that we'll find out soon, since the current likelihood is they could all be dead by morning. We're actually saying the same thing, except only one of us is still voting for them...

	Time:2009-09-24 17:45:19 GMT Author:ophiomancer Subject:(none) Link:165096#2676200	Parent:#297 Siblings:#301 Children:#303 #307	#299
	I checked with Joe before I wrote this.

Time:2009-09-24 17:47:04 GMT
Author:

dragonattack
Subject:(none)
Link:165096#2676456

Parent:#295
Siblings:(none)
Children:(none)

#300<